I said something along the lines of:
“Wow, I haven’t had a reason to smile ear to ear in a while.”
Along with
“Nah, the more dead corpos dragons, the better.”
In response to some liberal going off about how violence is never the solution, not mentioning how this murdered dipshit has personally overseen a system that perpetuates harm, suffering and death (violence) in the name of profit.
…
Good ole’ civility clause.
Whats the paradox of tolerance?
.world mods have never heard of it I guess.
PTB, comments celebrating a person who’s horrible are not encouraging violence. This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.
I think this comment snippet speaks for itself honestly.
yay, yet another venue for cultists to push their garbage on the unwilling.
So many things wrong with that statement, including the falsehood that only God can judge. We do have courts, including the court of public opinion.
Well, I’m as much god as whatever they’re worshipping, so I guess I’ll do the judging.
This is clearly an attempt from the mods to push their agenda. Their replies here in this thread support this theory.
“for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.”
The dastardly, scurilous, vile agenda that human life is sacred. Well done Sherlock, you uncovered the next Hitler.
Human life is sacred. All the people who died because of denied insurance claims and corporate greed deserve their killer (corporate insurance CEOs) brought to justice. Unfortunately, this is the only way too accomplish that goal.
Human life isn’t sacred. The prick who got murdered cared less about human life and has more blood on his hands than anyone celebrating his demise. People have been fighting insurance companies by legal means for years and things have only gotten worse. Violence may be the only way to get change. They already reversed that awful anesthesia policy that was announced the other day.
Why is it, that every time I see a post from you, you’re saying something stupid?
I’m just here to point out that everyone’s going to use the downvote button as a “disagree” button and the upvote as “agree,” and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop us. You can’t hold back the tide.
Yes.
As an anarchist, I am keenly aware that rules are merely suggestions, and are utterly meaningless when no system exists to actually enforce them.
The whole thing is all just made up. There are no “rules” written down like there are for software systems. There are just shared habits and models of the world, and traditions for how to react. In general, people agree and keep it all consistent enough from day to day that the rules in their heads translate into behavior and dependable systems in the real world. But it’s all just made up. It’s just people deciding what to do, every minute, in every society, based on what they decide in their brain, no matter how strict the “rules” that supposedly exist are.
Like how we could ‘make up’ having a healthcare system that provides universal affordable care to all citizens, but instead … we …
(not actually all of us, actually the extremely wealthy and influential people who control government policy and all the media that tells us what to think about government policy)
… ‘we’ make up a horrible, unjust system that perpetuates suffering, violence and death, so that a tiny minority of people can profit!
What I’m saying is that there is no mechanical system that puts those particular people in charge.
We had the gilded age, we had the labor battles that laid the foundation for the working economy of the 20th century, we had the New Deal and prosperity for a lot of people, then we let it get away from us and the crooks took charge again. But it all can change. We can make it different. People have fought their way back to good government from places a million times worse than modern-day America.
I’m not sure what you mean by mechanical.
Obviously there is not a physical machine like a 3d printer that produces a sociopoliticaleconomic system.
But there are absolutely empirically verified theories within sociology, political science, and economics which describe why historical events happened with a pretty good degree of accuracy, and a lot of them do function pretty mechanistically to predict likely future outcomes, though with a wider margin of possibility than physics predicting a physical machine.
I’m saying that nothing enforces these particular people being in charge, other than everyone agreeing that these are the people in charge, and that can change.
It has, in huge ways, for better and worse depending, all throughout history.
nothing enforces these particular people being in charge,
Is this a joke?
You’re saying there’s no military, no police, no jobs that take all our time just to stay alive, no media that reinforces the desired narrative, no corruption, no broken electoral system, no economic stratification, no relgion and bigotry used to convince people to support their own materially worsening lives, no intentionally broken education system… none of that enforces who is in charge?
I could go on for actual hours about ludicrous this statement is, you have to almost entirely ignorant of history, poli sci, sociology, econ, a whole number of other fields, to be able to say something like this.
I saw that old tired “It’s not a disagree button! Only downvote comments that don’t add to the discussion!” thing time and time again on reddit, but I’ve never seen it here. I hoped that it was accepted and understood that they are indeed agree/disagree buttons.
People might think that they shouldn’t be that, but it’s immaterial. That’s how people are going to use them, so other people might as well get used to it.
Honestly, I’ve never seen it be a problem for them to be like that. Whatever people were afraid of, it clearly wasn’t a big deal. They work fine.
Heh, I got a good chuckle at that comment removal. So glad I moved from there to db0.
looks like most of the mod actions you are looking at were done by little_cow (do not tag or harass) who has actually been fairly decent and understanding in my interactions with them.
very likely these actions are being done by threat of the .world admins, who cannot be replaced or swayed as it’s their property (servers) that host the content. not getting in on either side of this because honestly idgaf but if any of this upsets you:
vote with your activity and registration and stop using lemmy.world. i was here before they essentially made lemmy a centralized platform and trust me it was way cooler back then, it could be that way again.
vote with your activity and registration and stop using lemmy.world
Additionally, people who moderate communities there might consider to either create or join alternatives elsewhere. Because, seriously, this shit is .ml/Reddit tier.
I can’t really discuss the actual topic here intelligibly bc I always block [email protected] as one of if not the very first action for every new account I make anywhere across the Fediverse (I simply prefer the alternatives like [email protected] and [email protected]), nor have I looked into the modlog as you have. But may I make a tangential observation, if it’s not too annoying for it to be off-topic like this?
Have you seen the actual - albeit dog whistled - calls for violence, naming actual names and showing actual faces? I just saw one in Shitpost (https://lemmy.world/post/22802422), another in Memes, and there are additional cross-posts as well. Similar content or others that likewise extoll the virtues of violence include Comic Strips (https://mander.xyz/post/21552536) showing up in communities all across Lemmy, like here’s one that’s not the post itself but rather the comment section in Not The Onion (https://midwest.social/post/20083880).
I thought that such calls for violence - as Admiral Patrick calls it somewhere here in the comments of this post, a “lynch mob mentality” - would die down quickly after the election, but it seems quite the opposite instead. So it’s a very emotionally charged issue right now. And I even get it, though aside from rightness or wrongness, people each have their preferences as to what they can stomach, and e.g. someone with lived experience through such (like a school shooting event) may not be able to handle all of this.
Anyway I’m glad that you are sharing alternatives, bc no matter what, we need to not be dependent upon a single instance. But I do see where - again, setting aside right vs. wrong - there’s a real split across Lemmy right now about how such matters “should” be handled. At which point I agree with you in spirit that there NEEDS to be transparency in the moderation practices (even if, as others have suggested elsewhere here, this particular situation seems to be the result of a single moderator who may have acted overzealously to protect people from the rhetoric). Perhaps you can write a post to the mods or even admins of that instance asking for such, though it would probably be better to wait a week for this all to die down - perhaps the mod in question will apologize, or even be removed, though what you may want instead (but don’t let me put words into your mouth) is a clarification to be made to the wording of the community or instance rules. We really can affect the changes that we’d like to see, much of the time. And if/when not, then at least you know that you did your absolute best to try:-).
Edit: even a few hours later, the process has already begun, see e.g. the apology from the mod at https://lemmy.world/comment/13815531.
links
https://lemmy.world/post/22802422 has been deleted.
https://mander.xyz/post/21552536 is hard to interpret as praising violence IMO - no explanation is given why the pigeon (a typically passive animal) is burning the house.
https://midwest.social/post/20083880) is mostly people cheering on the current events. It does praise violence, but at the same time it acknowledges that CEO as a source of suffering for people.
I do think that mob mentality plays a role, but I don’t think that it’s the main factor here. People (not just you all in USA, but everywhere) are getting pissed; the ones in power always babbling that things will get better, and yet we don’t see it.
Perhaps you can write a post to the mods or even admins of that instance asking for such, though it would probably be better to wait a week for this all to die down - perhaps the mod in question will apologize, or even be removed, though what you may want instead (but don’t let me put words into your mouth) is a clarification to be made to the wording of the community or instance rules. We really can affect the changes that we’d like to see, much of the time. And if/when not, then at least you know that you did your absolute best to try:-).
I think that the issue is mostly on an admin level, not on a mod level. And based on previous interactions with one of those admins… seriously, I’ll pass - at least that one was a bit too eager to distort things to their convenience.
Plus you know, I’m awful at writing this sort of thing down - I write a full wall of text for what would need two lines.
They have their moderation style, you would do differently, and regardless of right or wrong the goal is to match moderation activities to the community desires. But that probably will require additional volunteers to really get off the ground, so that’s perhaps something that you could do? Ofc I cannot speak to your condition wrt your life status right now, I just hoped to point to whatever I could to help you realize that you are not powerless nor alone in wanting a sense of justice to be enacted - the trick being whose justice, especially when dealing with global cross-cultural values.
Wherever we go forward from here, it will require effort. And making that list is a good start:-).
I think that it’s less about different styles (like being laxer/stricter, sticking more/less to the letter of the rules, etc.) and more about bringing bad habits from Reddit. In Reddit neither your typical non-mod user nor your typical mod gives a damn about the rules - one expects to be able to go rogue unpunished and then punished for something random, while another wants a bullshit reason to get that feeling of power over the others. (Note that I’m talking on typical grounds. There were plenty decent = exceptional mods there, too.)
And, when I say that one of the admins was too eager to distort things to their convenience, I wasn’t even referring to my interactions with them as an admin, but just as another user. From Canvas 2025 times [I can give you further context if you want.]
I do know that it’ll require effort and a collective one, and I think that we [users in general] should work in that direction. I just think that I’m the wrong person for this specific job, I’m probably better at gathering info - like the lists.
I am trying to break things down into their component parts.
First, your lists are absolutely helpful, for many reasons even those unrelated to this incident, but for helping the Fediverse become less decentralized overall - so thank you for them:-).
Second, I have mostly avoided thinking about the actual admins yet bc I haven’t heard anything from them directly yet - though indirectly from the mod in question I did hear that the admins plan to modify the ToS to increase its transparency in relation to such things. It does valid to me that they need to worry about the police 🚨 knocking on their door 🚓, hence panicked a bit when they all that stuff. It’s also hard to figure some of that stuff out bc even if Lemmy.World is in - I don’t even know where, Germany? UK? France? somewhere in the EU I would suppose - if the USA feds were to ask them to remove it or else face some troubles, what kind of pressure would that place upon them?
Third, the actions of the actual mod in question have given me strong hope for the livelihood of the Fediverse in general - she apologized immediately, rescinded the bans, offered an explanation, and also her reasoning besides, and explained what she should have done and promised will do in the future instead.
I offered more depth on these matters in a recent reply to this comment from Blaze.
Except .ml would not ban you for these specific comments
But they would ban you for even remotely crtiical of NK, China, Russia, or Cuba. They’re terrible for different reasons.
No, it wouldn’t ban you for these specific comments, but it would ban you in the same exact scummy way: listing one rule, enforcing another, then lying that you violated the listed rule.
[Edit: I said “emphasis mine” and then deleted the quote. I’m a moron.]
I don’t even disagree with any of the mod actions here, and I fully agree with this.
I abandoned lemmy.world communities except for a handful of things, mostly the PugJesus communities and [email protected] which for some reason is fine. Everything else, I found replacements for that seem like they’re way superior.
So much better.
big facts, especially for the worldnews community. for some reason my instance doesn’t see this quokk instance but i have to imagine that any mod team is better than the ineffectual nepotism heap of wilty lettuce that is [email protected]’s
[email protected] and [email protected] are so strange. It’s just baffling. I haven’t even checked to see what’s currently going on, if MBFC bot is still around or if they’ve found a new troll to take under the protection of the mod team and ban people for arguing with. I don’t know, and I don’t want to know.
Looks like it’s [email protected] and not worldnews
Hey not sure why it’s not visible on your end? I’ve seen other Lemmy.cafe users post there before.
Maybe give it a try tomorrow? Could be a Lemmy syncing thing.
@[email protected] got me sorted. https://lemmings.world/comment/12313516 i just didn’t troubleshoot very hard lol
meanwhile on bluesky, there seems to be a celebration
Lemmy handling of this event is a bad look imho.
We got out of touch mods 🙄
Lemmy.world’s handling of this is a bad look. They don’t represent Lemmy as a whole no matter how much they want to.
You are correct.
.world is at the core of the people’s grievances here.
Tone deaf…
Even on my side of TikTok, there’s a celebration.
Sorry for the double reply. I’ll create a list of alternatives to .world communities here; I’ll also add the ones you guys suggest, as long as not from .ml (as .ml and .world are apparently peas from the same pod.)
technology: [email protected]
politics: [email protected] (UK), [email protected] (USA), [email protected] (Canada), [email protected] (Oz), [email protected] (allegedly world, in practice USA)
news: [email protected] , [email protected]
comic strips: I couldn’t find any general comm, but there’s [email protected] and [email protected]
microblog memes: [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected]
political memes: [email protected] , [email protected]
memes: [email protected]
ask lemmy: [email protected]
movies and animattion: [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] . Specifically for Japanese anime there’s ani.social (the whole instance).
EDIT: apparently the moderators apologised, including in this thread. So what I said that both are peas from the same pod might be inaccurate - it’s a matter of scale.
.
It’s funny that, when I created a list of .ml alternatives, some entitled prick was lying/assuming/bullshitting that I was trying to kill LW - since I didn’t list any LW comm. If the prick said the same now it would be true. [Still blocked because I got no time for assumers.]
I find it very good that this community is becoming the de-facto central point to ensure mods are kept in check and that such comments can be made and found.
Ditto; I don’t know if you planned this role for the comm, but it feels like a natural evolution - from complaining about mod abuse to acting against it.
I love me some emergent order.
dont we all and thats why we love you =)
Thank you - I’ll add those to the list!
They are not peas from the same pod though: Lemmy.world mods have already apologized, made some changes to the rules to clarify their points (apparently? I haven’t tracked them down yet), and resolved to do better.
Among other places, here: https://lemmy.world/comment/13815531.
In contrast, Lemmy.ml admins have only ever doubled down on their decisions, afaict.
They overlap ever so slightly, yet are worlds apart, imho. Still, it’s so good to have options bc if someone doesn’t want to be in a particular community, it’s great to have the option to jump and be elsewhere. That said, I appreciate many things that Lemmy.World offers to us: especially [email protected] for funsies, but moreover entirely free access to the best parts of the Fediverse, as well as volunteer, unpaid devotion to moderate communities hosted there. Beggers cannot be choosers, but also, these mods are not billionaires - they are regular people just trying to improve things in their corner of the world, as best as they see fit. Which if we don’t like, we’ll need to step up and help out ourselves to aid and create new communities to replace those on that instance. That’s my 2¢ anyway:-D.
I’ll edit the comment addressing it, since not doubling down is a thumbs up in my book.
So are you saying that in those communities celebrating murder is encouraged or what?
I’m saying that those communities are not in an instance where the admins enforce hidden rules, unlike .world and .ml. At least, not as far as I know.
Is this clear now?
For [email protected], you’re free to celebrate good news such as a CEO getting an early retirement package.
But say like if you celebrated an activist or leftist dying etc, it would be frowned upon and assessed on a case-by-case basis.
Yeah, .world is full of slightly right of center normies and pussies.
Right of centre by Lemmy standards, they’re still pretty left compared to the real world.
this depends on what part of the world is real to you
Nah, the average Lemming is just some leftist activist, so you don’t really get what fully centrist / liberal actually means.
I fucking wish.
TOS you say?
The bans seem to be lifted.
yes i only banned for 24 hours so that more information could be found additionally there were directions that people encouraging, cheering, making joke of, discussing payment, or of jury nullification are against the terms of service for lemmy.world. as of now there is new information regarding this section of the terms of service which will be announced and explained by the admins. i am sorry to those that feel i was excessive we have discuss this among the moderators and will use the lock power to reduce the moderator workflow. for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us. i recognize my bias in this and will work to be more restrained going forward.
You should stop being a mod. For so many reasons.
Agreed, this is insanely concerning.
What in the world? Discussing jury nullification is against the terms of service of lemmy.world? I’m so glad I decided to skip getting an account there. SMDH
Makes you wonder who is behind that server now
Now or always? That server always seemed a bit out of wack for a variety of resaons since I first learned about it in my early days on Lemmy after the Reddit exodus. My initial impression has been repeatedly reinforced and I keep wondering why it’s the largest instance. I guess for the same reason that MacDonalds is (one of?) the most popular restaurant chains in the world?
only God may judge us
I’m judging you right now, for your inability to keep your religion to yourself.
for me i consider human life sacred and despite the mistakes of this person only God may judge us.
Lmao I don’t know which god you’re referring to, but pretty sure based on the lore available they don’t give a fuck about human life
only God may judge us
If you’re referring to Yahweh, per the bible he’s a far more judgmental asshole than your average social media user.
יהוה
aka, YHWY isn’t even his original name. He was a Canaanite god of War and Death. Those were the entirety of his divine portfolio. That particular “God’s” original name is EL.
John Brown did nothing wrong
This Shoter did nothing wrong
If you consider human life sacred, then you would consider that CEO evil, and then would ballance that his death is a net positive.
Personally I would’ve much rather he just rot in prison for his crimes. I won’t celebrate murder but I’m not the least bit sad he’s dead
The system doesn’t allow for a corpo parasite to go to prison for their crimes.
So we got the anti hero doing the hard work.
Best us lowly pedons can do is show some support for the adjustment done to the UHC corporate organization
How does it feel sucking corporate, and status quo, cock for free?
BTW: יהוה, aka YHYW, aka Yahweh’s original name is EL. He’s a Canaanite god of War and Death. I’m pretty sure that this follower of Iehova, same god different name, would be pardoned by his “God.”
Edit: in case you missed it, the letter “I” was the Latin language character for “J” until the 4th or 5th century.
I will be finding a new instance that actually encourages discussion, going forward since this instance is run by censors that do not like free speech
Edit 2: in case you also missed it another group changed EL’s name to Allah, and a further group than that one declared that ELhovallah has said that science is more real than any “divine doctrine.”
Fuck you, and fuck my god. He created entire communities that I probably should be chastising because most American Baha’i’s are the “moderate white people” that MLK Jr. talked about so eloquently. They will say all the right things, but I have seen too often that they are merely talking. The saddest part is that because most of these people aren’t white people, so when they get off their asses and do something, it’s generally successful.
Sorry for the big off-topic. I just can’t help when it comes to etymology.
Edit: in case you missed it, the letter “I” was the Latin language character for “J” until the 4th or 5th century.
What changed around the 4th~5th centuries were sounds, not letters - the Latin words using the sound [j] (as in yes) were being pronounced with [d͡ʒ] (as in jazz). Even everyday words like iocus (game) or iam (already).
But people kept spelling them the same - you’d use “I” for [i ɪ j ʒ dʒ] (as in beet, bit, genre, jazz), and let context tell them apart. For any language using the Latin alphabet, not just Latin herself, as shown by Shakespeare:
The iniury of many a blasting houre; Let it not tell your Iudgement I am old,At most you’d flourish some “I” with a downwards curve, for easier reading; such as when you got 2+ “I” in a row. This mostly affects numbers (like XIII being spelled “xiij”), but also a few words like Old Spanish “fiio”=“fijo” (“son”; modern Spanish “hijo”).
Edit 2: in case you also missed it another group changed EL’s name to Allah
It’s more like both sides changed it. Without going too much into detail:
- the proto-Semitic word was around *ʔil or so
- the Biblical Hebrew pronunciation of ⟨אל⟩ was probably [ʔil] too, even if Tiberian Hebrew would read the word as [ʔe:l] “El” instead.
- Arabic “Allah” is most likely a contracted expression of [aɫiɫɫa:h]; [aɫ] is the article and the [aːh] a vocative. The underlying root is [ʔil]~[ʔill], spelled ⟨إِلّ⟩~⟨إِل⟩.
Well done on being both pedantic and informative. Yes you’re absolutely correct on both points, I didn’t feel the need to get that far into the weeds trying to explain that my own personal beliefs are tied into all of that historical pedantry. I just wanted to illustrate that such assholery is entirely possible by following the earlier ideas.
Sorry for my burst of pedantry. I couldn’t help it, I love to dig through the origin of the words.
…for a reason that is actually related to your Baháʼí faith: it shows that humans - those in the past, us in the present, and probably the ones in the future - are still the same. You see the same processes working on those words in the past as they do now.
[I agree with your main point. And I’m aware that what I said is unrelated to it, it’s only marginally related to the example.]
BTW: יהוה, aka YHYW, aka Yahweh’s original name is EL. He’s a Canaanite god of War and Death.
The word “EL” was just a label, like the word “god” itself (which literally means “creator”), and not a name. It meant “mighty one” or “strong one”.
For example, phrases translated as “God Almighty” is El Shad-dai.
When angels are referred to as the “sons of God” the original Hebrew is beneh’ ha-Elo-him.
Elo-him is also used to refer to other gods, and even human judges in Israel.
There are many more examples of the etymology, but “EL” is not always referring to the God referred to by the tetragrammaton. And it never refers to the Hebrew/Christian God in it’s singular isolated form. It always has a qualifier, like “God Almighty” (El Shad-dai).
The main difference being that the other Canaanite gods didn’t all have the EL prefix, in fact, he was the only one that had that prefix, and denominated him as the specific god of Death and War.
You can attempt to claim that isn’t true, many biblical and judeaic scholars have attempted to claim the same thing. The archeological evidence doesn’t support your claim
That doesn’t change linguistics. As I mentioned, there are examples in the Bible of other things, including humans, that were referred to as El.
Another example is Ba’al. Ba’al was both a generic word for pagan gods as well as one specific god. But that doesn’t mean so the various pagan gods were the same.
You also missed my point about the qualifier. The fact that the Canaanite god of death and war had no qualifier denotes a difference. The Hebrew/Christian God whose name is given as Jehovah in many translation, always has a qualifier with the word EL. Specifically qualifies like “God Almighty”, Most High (el’yohn), and never appears in isolated form except when referring to others.
The word EL even makes up many biblical names like Dani’el (God is my judge), El’isha (God is salvation), and Micha’el (Who is like God?).
The fact that there was a Canaanite god whose name was just “god” means and proves nothing, other than if there ever was a name attributed to that god it was lost to time.
El means “the” as far as I know. As he is “the one” and it is not part of the name, it is the title, basically it is not “a(ny) god” its “the god”. At least it was explained so to me from my bro, who “speaks” the old Hebrew. But I don’t know why it is the discussion here. Isn’t there better places to discuss etymology where there are people who speak the language?
As far as I am aware, EL didn’t mean “the” in Canaanite society or language. That happened later with the other tribes of the Canaanites forming completely different civilizations.
You are perfect… For Reddit. Go back there.
I was with you until you mentioned that god thing.
You’re spineless
What mistakes? Those were all intentional outcomes.
We understand that you’ll repeatedly choose to selectively enforce or break the rules to ensure the predetermined narrative is served, then cite your religion as the reason.
Thanks for letting us know.
no? i was asked to enforce the terms of service and the celebration of murder encourages others but i have now been asked to not consider these a violation anymore
only God may judge us
And you, apparently.
Nah I judge you hard, you’re a garbage excuse for a human.
only God may judge us
Maybe stop using ancient, inconsistent collections of fairy tales and psuedo history to inform your world view.
Grow up lol.
Jury nullification is a legal right any jurist in the US has, which is why liberals hate it.
i am not from the united states and there are countries with laws differant from the united states I was asked to remove these things for this reason
So let me get you to repeat that so I know you didn’t misspeak. The admins of Lemmy.world instructed you to remove posts educating people about their rights in the country they live in? Can you tag them so we can discuss those admins here?
they are making an announcement on this topic to make the reasoning more clear
i apologize for misunderstanding and the correct action would have to lock the post until we all understood what to do
as of now all who were community banned by me are no longer banned
Hmmm… Do Gaza residents count, how about American payers of health insurance?
Hmmm
yes? i would remove comments and posts celebrating the death of those people i pray for them as i pray for you and the family of the murdered person you celebrate
I don’t know if temporarily muting those accounts was the right call or not - I did not even look at the pictures of the modlog here much less elsewhere - but entirely separately from that I wanted to say thank you for offering your explanation here. Whatever you end up deciding, your willingness to be introspective is already a powerful thing.
thank you
i was asked to moderate anything that is illegal specifically mentioning “jury nullification” and “financially supporting” this has been changed now until a larger announcement is made
many admins and moderators at .world including myself are not american, i pray that the others who are angry at me and hope they consider there are more countries with laws that are different from them.
Jury nullification is one of democracies’ systems of checks and balances that protects against injustice. It’s also not illegal in the US to talk about as a topic for the general population.
Banning discussion about it is like banning people from talking about voting or civil disobedience. Banning discussion of it is a disservice to the public good.
That’s the thing - if someone wants to go to all the trouble to step up and expend actual effort to create an instance, or aid by moderating a community, or even make posts to existing ones, then such a person imho has more of a right to speak up than merely a lurker. Otherwise, it’s just whinging, and the people may even have had to do the same if they were in your shoes, following the directives that you were given, regardless of their personal beliefs.
So again I haven’t studied the issue enough to know whether it was the right call or not, either by the admins or by you, but I hope as you make that determination in your head that you aren’t unduly influenced by people who choose to see only what they view as the extreme negative (as in result) without bothering to look at or acknowledge all the positives that you do as well. Making a judgement is hard work!
Please keep in mind that many people, perhaps out of fear of retaliation (if only by downvoting) may not take the time to express any positive sentiments about this (or, as I am considering doing, may take a break from social media a bit bc all of this news, in every single community it seems, is getting to be a bit much). Thus before I go on that break for a few days, I wanted to express my support for at least trying to help and be there for your community - even if you ultimately feel that it was the wrong call (and I’m not even so much as hinting here that it may have been - I truly don’t know nor at this point even care), you did at least try and I wish more people would see that. After some cooling off, I think some will. And for those who choose to remain perpetual entitled children, dependent upon others to do all their work for them (in this case I mean moderation EFFORTS to keep a community going and livable), who even cares what they think.
I dunno about the actions you took here, but I do at least support the efforts you go to on a daily basis to support keeping your community alive and functional.
if someone wants to go to all the trouble to step up and expend actual effort to create an instance, or aid by moderating a community, or even make posts to existing ones, then such a person imho has more of a right to speak up than merely a lurker
Are you justifying power tripping?
Not at all. Though she merely did as the instance admins instructed her? (mostly) And they seemed to be worried about police knocking down their door, as laws vary from country to country.
Her part was, as she said in her own words, to have removed the comments and banned people (no matter that they were extremely short-term, are already rescinded, and no more will be forthcoming for some of these issues), when she should have locked the post with a statement that the admins were issuing a moratorium on discussions of the topic for 24 hours and/or when they can get the ToS modified to provide transparency and consistency in what their want to see done. It’s their instance - they can do as they please. But her part in this seems only a small one, it’s the admins - who I haven’t heard anything from yet - who seem the real issuers of these edicts?
And as for myself, I am seeking a more nuanced and subtle form of argumentation beyond simply “my side always right, their side poopy buttface”. Though I do have sympathy for those who may have been affected by the underlying healthcare issues, and yet it seems like a proper diagnosis with full acknowledgement of all not just some of the factors involved that would serve us all best as we move forward here?
And I meant what I said at the end:
I dunno about the actions you took here, but I do at least support the efforts you go to on a daily basis to support keeping your community alive and functional.
There may be bad parts about all of this here, but in retrospect it will become easier to see how well this conflict ended up being resolved - the transparency that I’m seeing here gives me strong hope. Like, where are the admins here in this thread, explaining their actions? If it’s here I haven’t seen it yet, but this mod came forth immediately and owned up to what she did, her explanation as to why, and even exposing her underlying reasoning process - she didn’t have to do any of that?! And she’s taking a LOT of flak for it too, especially her belief structures. Maybe we’ll find out that the admins are being PTBs here, but that’s not the vibe I get from this mod in particular, who seemed only trying to be friendly to everyone, and again, already having admitted her mistakes (in removing+banning rather than locking with explanation).
So, what am I missing here, about this mod in particular I mean? (The admins I don’t have sufficient information about to even make a guess.)
I’ll reply to you later, had too many drinks at this very moment ha ha
Can’t comment on bans/deservedness. Lemmy is infested with mods/agents/bots that are pro empire/CIA/military paid protectors of disinformation and said empire.
Not even a conspiracy. They spend billions every year trying to control the conversations online. The executives for many social media companies are former Mossad or CIA. Reddit admins used to have a post up acknowledging the astroturf farm at Eglin Air Force base as their highest traffic source.
Always has been…
They deff seem to be overwhelmed now. Public opinion too strong, too unified.
Dead CEO is good news.
Which is why both neoliberal and conservative politicians are pushing for strong social media censorship laws right now, and calling for repealing or modifying the first amendment.
You are definitely onto something…
This is a watershed moment IMHO and it will be used to supress 1a AND 2a
Liberals forget that 2a is there once 1a fails
Liberals don’t support the 1a nor 2a. They’re fascists.
Leftists are strong supporters of both, though.
I don’t think a tankie has any right to complain about propaganda online.
Paradox of tolerance? Are insurance companies on lemmy defending letting people die?
United Health has the highest claim denial rate in the US and denies over 30% of claims by people trying to be healthy.
They don’t have to go on lemmy to defend, they just do it and they have let thousands of people die.
Lol I heard they were removing stuff but I was expecting, like, actionable threats of violence. This is just, like, “It’s against the rules to fail to sufficiently mourn your cruel overlords.”
Yup - I gave the modlog a check, as usual; it’s mostly “yay he’s dead”, nothing serious. At most some might consider it distasteful. (I don’t.)
I want to say that this is a case where it’s not clearly either a PTB or a YDI situation. The mods seem to be enforcing their comm/instance rules, albeit their rules in this instance seem over the top.
I wonder what kind of acronym would fit this description. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.
TBD - Tyranny By Design
I’d say PTB but I guess TBD will do.
Who does it benefit to have instance rules like this? On LW you are not allowed to promote or celebrate any form of violence, so no matter how oppresive the state is, and no matter who the object of violence is (rapist, murderer, genocider, Nazi). The LW view seems to be that it would be uncivil to resist your own systematic exploitation and oppression in this way, and that it is always wrong to promote violence, even agaist literal Nazis. I’ve noticed most of the liberal instances have a similar policy. With a soft liberal underbelly like that, I dread to think what sort of milquetoast resistance to fascism the US population will be able to muster over the next few years.
Hah, catchy!
Can we please not turn this place into acronym soup like Reddit was in places?
You don’t even save that much time.
Power tripping bastard
You did it yourself
You save quite some time
That time being spent searching through the comments trying to decipher the acronyms.
They are in the sidebar, if people come here even once in a while they’ll know them.
Well, if you’re searching comments instead of reading the sidebar that’s always available, then you deserve to spend hours doing it.
dios mío, A LIBERAL!
I think they should make a post addressing this but it is pretty funny to see people’s reactions
“Erm, tos 🤓👆”
Me holding the TOS in my hands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XEwA8A5SE0
