So Musk did a gesture that was likely a Nazi salute. It could’ve also have just been some other type of salute from another country known for genocide. Much like Ukrainian soldiers have been spotted using “resignified” fascist symbols. And honestly, this is always the least damning and easier to backtrack evidence that somebody or some organisation might be similar to the fascists of the thirties.
It doesn’t matter if billionaires or politicians maintain prisons for non-citizens on the border, employ immigrant-catching police, uphold laws for hyperexploitation of minority ethnicities at home or use military force to subordinate countries abroad, or even fund the fucking genocide of the Palestinian people.
The only smoking gun these “commentators” have on whether Trump or Musk (or even Bolsonaro or the Azov battalion) might be like the fascists of the 30’s is if they replicate (consciously or not) their aesthetics with motorcades, rallies, salutes and swastikas. Otherwise, who can really know?
(Yes, I understand that using those symbols is making their ideological roots explicit, and giving cover and legimaticy to groups that never really went away. My point is not to minimise it, but that a billion articles will be written about “Did Musk do a Fascist Salue?” rather than the much more necessary “is Musk a fascist?”)
yea i agree, it’s as if material reality didn’t matter just aesthetics, tho even the aesthetics of the US have been outright fascist for its entire existence.
Something about the online reaction to this rubbed me the wrong way, so genuinely thank you for clarifying my own feelings to myself. All these liberals love to feign shock and outrage over melon’s juvenile antics and insist that copmala, the other pro-genocide candidate, would have been a superior choice because this specific behavior wouldn’t happen at her inauguration. They’re mad that the eye of the storm is a little gustier than it’s supposed to be.
Side note, internet boy’s HH moment was so goofy and stilted and awkward… I wonder if someone tripled-dog dared him to do that or if he just got a little too giggly or hesitant when the time finally came. It was kind of cringe.
It has the energy of a middle schooler seeing how far he can get away with it, but having a shitty excuse to backpedal with.
“But, teacher, I wasn’t doing that! I was giving my heart out to the class! They’re totally different!”
Because liberals only under fascism through its aesthetics. It’s the Umberto Eco school of fascism identification where it only counts if they’re wearing Hugo Boss and marching Jews into camps, otherwise it’s just sparkling oppression. It’s why they fall over so easily to “respectable” fascists smart enough to mask their genocides under a facade of respectability. And it’s why they cannot ever truly oppose fascism without fundamental changes to their core ideologies.
Because liberals only under fascism through its aesthetics.
Sure, valid point. But the aesthetics have arrived. There’s no more excuses. And still they won’t lift a finger to organize. So what will America’s response be? I bet it will be business as usual.
It’s why they fall over so easily to “respectable” fascists smart enough to mask their genocides under a facade of respectability.
I suppose one misfortune of the dogmatism and moralism of Umberto Eco’s definition is not only that it lacks a class analysis but also that due to that we don’t get a proper debate on how to define fascism almost anywhere on the internet.
For instance, in my definition of fascism (which I idiosyncratically picked up from people way more knowledgeable than me), Biden and the democrats wouldn’t fit. Summing it up, I define fascism as “a militant movement in defence of Capital and bourgeois/imperialist interests”, which would easily include the likes of Trump, Musk and the movement they spearhead.
However the Democrats are anything but militant, as they shun broad and “ideological” participation, so they occupy the institutional wing of imperialism. This definition is more restrictive than the “Capitalism in Decay” understanding, but I see no reason to assume that colonialism and barbarity are reserved for the militant wing of imperialism, though they’ll push for it aggressively and without reverence for inconvenient institutional conventions.
Of course, this is not the only possible Marxist definition, and not really useful as an expletive as what people usually mean is “genocidal, like Hitler”. Winston Churchill was also genocidal.
i personally think ‘fascism’ is a rhetorically useful concept but not particularly so analytically for the current wave of reacitonary ideology. feel like if it was up to me i would largely keep fascism contained to its historical moment, mostly because someone doesn’t need to be fascist to be a genocidal freak as you said with the churchill example.
or i guess less radically it’s been a bit overextended in its usage - america is a reactionary empire, but it wasn’t fascist in character for a while, and this qualitative shift does have even more negative outcomes than the previous paradigm even if this was probably going to be that stage’s result regardless.
a billion articles will be written about “Did Musk do a Fascist Salue?” rather than the much more necessary “is Musk a fascist?”
I mean, isn’t it obvious that he is? He’s constantly boosting openly hitlerite Twitter accounts (garbage human, conscious philosopher, end wokeness, etc.) and is well known for QTing JQ posts with the thinking emoji or whatever. I think he thinks he’s dogwhistling and is just too stupid to realize how obvious it is.
Yes, the richest man in the world MAY HAVE done a Nazi salute during the presidential inauguration. But at least unlike in communist China we had orderly elections and a peaceful handover of power to a known felon and con artist.
He did a nazi salut while saying “the future of civilisation is assured”, that gun is smoking tire fire smoke.
Is it wrong that I hate him more than Gates, Zucc and discount Lex Luthor? Like I legitimately dislike and don’t give a shit about the other 3 and don’t think about them everyday. But I can’t go for one day without thinking of this mf blowing up in one of his rockets or getting Luigi’d.
not really, the all these tech oligarchs are crap but at least they keep their thoughts private. tho zucc is slowly trying to turn into an elon.
Kinda going back and forth on this one, we likely won’t know for decades which of their companies did the most harm to humanity, but each got lifted by wall street to where it is today, but on the other hand the rich are who pull the levers so their personal shit is more out in the open to be smeared over all of us… melon is prob the right one to hate the most
Yea we don’t know that but he definitely currently holds the record for the most deplorable person individually.
the allegation that he didn’t do a fascist salute is frankly quite silly. i know a sieg heil when i see one, that shit was textbook. anyway i hope he dies painfully
the symbols are so reified no one even remembers to think about the contents of the ideology, great post I agree completely
The crazy thing for me was that he started talking about how “civilization is saved.”
really well put comrade. that third paragraph is actually a banger.
i mean, the not-so-subtle wink to fascists is just to tell to the libruls “yeah we’re far-right” if the former evidence wasn’t hamfisted enough to send the message
Absolute banger post holy shit
It’s hard to distinguish between the gormless ignoramuses and the crypto-fascists testing the waters for a new Nazi bar.
I’m erring on the side of crypto-fascist in my moderation right now. Sorry for the false positives, witless crackerlibs.
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