• czech@kbin.social
    1·
    1 year ago

    Ah, right- There are no fascists but if there are it’s the leftists! Thanks for a good laugh today. Don’t ever let facts get in your way, bud.

    • 10A@kbin.social
      1·
      1 year ago

      Hmm, let’s break it down:

      a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti)

      Could be leftists, conservatives, or any other political group.

      that exalts nation and often race above the individual

      Well that excludes conservatives, because conservatism celebrates rugged individualism.

      Leftism, by contrast, embraces groups above individualism. This is what conservatives usually refer to as neo-Marxism. It’s also known as identity politics. It’s this idea that we’re all members of a group, and that group gives us our identity. Then with intersectionality, you have multiple groups defining identity.

      Two caveats:

      1. Christians are the exception to the rule, where many conservatives do embrace an identity that can be defined as a group.
      2. Leftists do exalt groups above the individual, but those groups are not normally the nation (at least not in the US).

      and that stands for a centralized autocratic government

      Yes, in general, conservatives support small government, while leftists prefer government regulations over private business, government handouts for the poor, government taxation of the wealthy, and government control of every little thing in life — basically big government.

      Centralized? In the US, centralized means federal control whereas decentralized means State and local control. Leftists generally prefer the former, whereas conservatives generally prefer the latter.

      headed by a dictatorial leader

      Not applicable in the US, but I wouldn’t put it past the Left in the near future.

      severe economic and social regimentation,

      Yep, see this thread for instance. Leftist love regimented control over what we’re allowed to think, and they love silencing the opposition.

      and forcible suppression of opposition

      Oh, you mean like when Biden has his primary opponent, Trump, tied up in court with accusations and a threat of imprisonment? Or, you mean like this very thread where leftists are trying to silence the TERFs? Yes, leftists absolutely love the forcible suppression of their opposition.

      In conclusion, no, it’s not a perfect fit for leftists, but it’s loosely close — and it certainly doesn’t fit conservatives even slightly.

      • czech@kbin.social
        1·
        1 year ago

        Great theory, but lets take a look at reality.

        that exalts nation and often race above the individual

        Have you heard of MAGA?

        and that stands for a centralized autocratic government

        While Trump announced he “plans to eliminate executive branch constraints on his power if he is elected president in 2024”

        headed by a dictatorial leader

        See the last point…

        and forcible suppression of opposition

        Like Jan 6th.

        You can’t just make up whatever you want when you’re not in /r/conservative. You are constrained by reality. Nobody is here to delete my posts and ban me for you.

        • 10A@kbin.social
          0·
          1 year ago

          Yes, well the MAGA crowd isn’t very conservative if you ask me, and personally I support DeSantis. I think Democrats are strongly pushing for a Trump nomination because they know he’s unelectable, and it’s an easy play.

          But to your point, I concede that most people do consider MAGA to be right wing, and that Trump has on several occasions said things suggesting he’d like an autocracy. I think we can agree that’d be undesirable. I just don’t think it’s very conservative.

          Like Jan 6th.

          All that was, was a group of jaded voters who believed (rightly or wrongly) that there was election fraud. Personally I see no evidence of fraud substantial enough to change the election. But at the same time, I recognize that for someone who truly did believe there was election fraud, they were upset and they wanted to protest about it. That’s all it was — a protest that was legitimate based on what they believed.

          You are constrained by reality. Nobody is here to delete my posts and ban me for you.

          And I’m glad about that, 100%. I wouldn’t want you banned.

          But back to the definition, you can’t just pluck a couple of words out of there and say it’s a match. The whole definition fits the left way better than the right, and yet in truth doesn’t fit either completely.

          • danhakimi@kbin.social
            2·
            1 year ago

            “lol, I hate the main conservative group in the US because they’re not the right kind of Scotsman conservative. Instead, I love the guy who been pushing the most extreme book-banning policy in the US.”

            did you forget that this was a conversation about fascism when you brought DeSantis up, or do you not know who he is?

            (rightly or wrongly)

            lol no

            But at the same time, I recognize that for someone who truly did believe there was election fraud

            who do you think tricked them into believing that? or do you think it was all one massive coincidence?

          • czech@kbin.social
            0·
            1 year ago

            But back to the definition, you can’t just pluck a couple of words out of there and say it’s a match.

            That’s what you did. So I responded with actual examples, using the conservative front runner- and you replied with “no true Scotsman”.

            That makes absolutely no sense.

            Or, you mean like this very thread where leftists are trying to silence the TERFs? Yes, leftists absolutely love the forcible suppression of their opposition.

            Oh wow did somebody place you under arrest for posting your opinions online?? Or does this have absolutely nothing to do with free speech, again?

            • 10A@kbin.social
              0·
              1 year ago

              I’m not saying “no true Scotsman.” I’m saying Mussolini was a legitimate fascist, and his party died a long time ago. Some people today have similar traits, especially on the Left, but nobody is really part of his party anymore.

              Free speech is a delicate principle. It requires everyone to firmly agree that everyone is allowed to speak freely, and we’re all prepared to fight to the death, literally, to defend their right to say it. It’s delicate because as soon as people abandon it, the entire project of western civilization can be destabilized. What we are permitted to say on kbin and every other online platform is the essence of free speech.

              • danhakimi@kbin.social
                1·
                1 year ago

                I’ve never heard anybody argue that fascism means “literally the Italian fascist party” before. Based on your previous comment, it seems that you’re unaware—many people consider the Nazis fascists, as well. Particularly, everybody who knows the first thing about fascism.

              • czech@kbin.social
                0·
                1 year ago

                Free speech is a delicate principle. It requires everyone to firmly agree that everyone is allowed to speak freely, and we’re all prepared to fight to the death, literally, to defend their right to say it

                What? Says who? This only exists in r/conservative echo chambers. You’re free to say what you want but nobody has to listen.

                The “prepared to fight to the death to defend it” is in reference to the “free speech” that the constitution protects. We literally had a war about it 300 years ago. You can’t have it both ways.

                I’m not saying “no true Scotsman.” I’m saying Mussolini was a legitimate fascist, and his party died a long time ago. Some people today have similar traits, especially on the Left, but nobody is really part of his party anymore.

                I’m saying Trump it the leader of the Conservative party in America and you are saying he’s not a true conservative. It’s the definition of “no true Scotsman”. Stating it’s not doesn’t actually change anything.

                • 10A@kbin.social
                  0·
                  1 year ago

                  Trump was a life-long Democrat until he switched parties. He’s not a Christian. His personality could hardly be described as “conservative” by anyone. Trump may win the GOP primary again, just because Democrats control the mass media, but he does not represent the voice of conservative Americans, even if we end up voting for him in the general election. He’s a political anomaly, which is why he has a fanbase, but is also why he shouldn’t be a factor in this conversation.