https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas
Basically the plot of this story. It poses the issue of how much we value society over the individual, and if that is good or not. Would you want to live in a world that depended on the the torture of a single person. You then could extrapolate that out to societies in the real world, US and chattel slavery. the west and the use of sweat shop labor for cheap products, the Emirates and their use of migrants as indentured servants. Even tipped wages for servers in the USA, the gig economy, and things like medical residencies could be considered a minor version of Omelas. As humans, we often tolerate the abuse or exploitation of others for our own benefit, or even just out of ignorance and inaction.
It is a quick read. One of a handful of stories that I have gone back to over the decades.
Star Trek Strange New Worlds recently did an interpretation of this story
deleted by creator
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-ones-who-stay-and-fight/
Someone made a response story of sorts, figure I might as well share it here
I mean, most Christians would say yes because that’s the entire premise of the crucifixion.
This interpretation leaves out the most important part of the crucifixion story: Jesus willingly took on the world’s sins out of love. So whether or not most Christians would say yes depends on if the one person being tortured has a choice in the matter, which is unspecified in the question.
I came to say the same thing. This is exactly what Christianity believes.
But of course, it was Jesus who gave himself willingly.
If he was forced to do that, it would’ve been reprehensible because he was the only truly innocent person who ever lived.
Do you mean ultimate badass Talenel’Elin , Herald of War?
First thought!
Username checks out. Lol.
I’ll take a different approach here. Evolution does not care about your feelings.
If a species is unwilling to self-sacrifice for the greater good, and it comes up against an event that cannot be solved with selfishness, it goes extinct. Like in this scenario.
But evolution is a motherfucker, and evolution does not care about your feelings, the only thing that matters to evolution is reproductive success. So some people are going to be altruistic because that’s better for the species because it makes it more survivable.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s wrong, but the species that’s going to survive is the one that’s willing to self sacrifice for the greater good of the species. To increase reproductive success. And that’s what’s going to be left in the universe. Because evolution does not care. You either get with the program or you get out of the gene pool no other option
Evolution is not a good base for morals. We tried it out - was really bad.
Now hold on. How can we be certain? Maybe holocaust 2: electric boogaloo will be better
I’m in Germany, so not sure if allowed to answer.
Sure you can! Say it with me: “Eugenics and genocide aren’t a fast track to an improved gene pool. Holocaust 2 is bad news bears.”
Dang, I’m already marching on the street with a burning torch.
Evolution works, we exist.
Sure, but is a bad basis for morals. Like I said - social Darwinism is dodgy at best.
Evolutionary biology is definitely no basis for a system of morality. But I must say, as a biologist who studied evolution, that social Darwinism is not based either on evolutionary theory or empirical evidence. The idea that evolution is driven solely by competitive ability is pseudoscience, and works neither in human nor animal populations.
I wrote it further down, ist based on very basic understanding of evolution (happen to have studied biology myself) and sure, like any other moral system it’s not based on any empirical evidence.
Oh agreed! 100%!! Evolution has no morality baked into it just efficaciousness.
So using evolution to reason moral questions is not the best way to go.
It may not be the happiest way to go but I think it’s the only self-consistent way to go.
As an individual I totally believe in making the world a better place, do unto others as that you would have them do unto you, all of that. But in the scenario where the world’s going to end unless one dude sacrifices themselves, I would say basic instinct kicks in. The tribe must survive!
I hope you just pretend that you don’t know what social Darwinism is and how applying it worked out in the end.
You know Darwin himself was against the idea. He argued that our ability to look after one another was one of the most vital parts of being human and we can’t save humanity by giving up our humanity.
How did you manage to interpret my comment in a way that I support social Darwinism?
Evolution is a scientific concept, it is not an ideology.
Someone’s been looking too much into Procedure Montauk 110
Prepare for the
Metamemeticthreat to be quarantined and for this whole infection vector to be [REDACTED]
deleted by creator
No it’s not morally preferable. Fuck that world that requires human sacrifice.
I agree. It would be practical and coldhearted, not moral.
It’s also a fake question because there is no situation where torturing someone makes the world a better place.
I mean the “first world” is built entirely on the sacrifices of the rest of the world. People live in unimaginably horrible conditions so that we can consume and be free.
I think it has happened numerous times already under the same pretense.
I am not sure if we are saved or not.
Are you trying to make an arguement for Christianity?
Unfair to ask the question in the incomplete form… The tortured person is you. Now answer
In practice we all know what we would do. Given that morality is at best invented and aspirational that is the moral action. Or at least we think that it is.
Is that person Rupert Murdoch? Then yes
Haha, innocent. He doesn’t really fit the description.
Shit you’re right
I’m still fine with sacrificing him. Volcano, vultures, doesn’t really matter. Some kicks to the balls won’t do harm as well. He needs to be removed from society.
“healthy unemployment rate”
I would not do it, if somebody else does it - so be it.
Nope. That’s a world that’s not worth saving.
