• Durotar@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    I don’t think that you fully understand what’s happening. This is not Call of Duty. Leave any internal political issues until the end of the war. Right now, you’re helping Russia.

    • Sasuke [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Leave any internal political issues until the end of the war

      and how do you imagine they’ll do that exactly? how are they even to begin resolving their political issues when all leftwing parties have been banned, unions are severely restricted, and strikes and protests have been made illegal? even if the allow for free elections again, any post-war government will have to act adhere to the neoliberal repayment programs of the IMF and other foreign actors, meaning further wage cuts, more austerity, more privatization

      • Spzi@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Good points, but what’s the alternative? At least Ukraine has a chance to even have internal politics after the war.

      • Durotar@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        and how do you imagine they’ll do that exactly?

        That’s not my business. Ukrainians have showed multiple times over the past 30 years that they know how to deal with bad politicians. Don’t try to come up and solve problems that don’t exist today. Today the country as at war and not spreading Russian propaganda the least we could do.

        • Sasuke [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          but these problems do exist today? that’s literally the whole point of the article. and what they’re experience today—extreme salary cuts, austerity, longer work days, poorer access to public goods—isn’t going to magically go away once the war is over. especially not when every avenue ukrainians have to protests their government is being criminalized

          • Durotar@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Okay, go ahead, attack the Ukrainian government for having poor living conditions during the war if that makes the most sense to you under given circumstances.

        • Red Wizard 🪄@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          That’s not my business.

          What is your business then exactly? Is it property, or people? You seem to be on the side of property with no regard for the conditions of the people who exist on that property.

    • albigu@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      So are we just supposed to allow (heck, even support!) Ukraine despite them implementing a system of modern slavery for their people, blocking civilians from fleeing, and forced conscription, some of it even slated to last even beyond the end of the war, because to even criticise it is “helping Russia”? Helping Russia do what, exactly? Look better than Ukraine? That’s on Ukraine to be the big boy.

      This is not Call of Duty, a war is waged for political reasons, and therefore the politics of it should be laid bare.

      • Durotar@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        They are not implementing a system of modern slavery, they’re protecting their country and fighting for their lives.

        • albigu@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          1 year ago

          I’m quoting again:

          The new draft law on the mobilization of workers is intended to “ensure the functioning of the national economy under martial law”, in the words of those drafting the law. It is noteworthy that in early August, Ukraine began to talk about a likely ban against military conscripts leaving the country for three years following an eventual end to military hostilities and martial law. Just such a proposal was recently made by Vadym Denysenko […], head of the Ukrainian Institute for the Future and a former advisor to the head of the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs. Denysenko said, “I am sure that even after the war it will be necessary to extend the ban on men traveling abroad for at least another three years. Otherwise, we simply will not survive as a nation.”

          Please illuminate me in your wisdom, how banning people from leaving while conscripting them to either fight in the front or forced labour is not a form slavery. Whose lives are being saved by arresting people trying to flee the country?

          • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Don’t you get it? People come and go, they live and die but what lasts is lines on maps. The lines on the map are the only thing that matters. If Russia moves the line on the map into Ukraine to cover people that want to live in Russia whats to stop them from moving other lines into other nations where people who speak Russian feel persecuted by their government and nazis?

            • albigu@lemmygrad.mlOP
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              1 year ago

              People over here sound so much like CK2 players that I get flashbacks to the thrashfire Pagan Fury dlc soundtrack. “You don’t understand, they’re fighting a genocide! Which is why we must conscript and self-genocide the entirety of Ukraine to prevent the separatist half of Ukraine from being genocided by their allies!”

            • blakeus12 [they/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Jesus, you sound psychotic. borderline nationalist. people being forced into slavery for the sake of their countey? for the sake of the donbas? really? would you be a slave for lines on a map?

              like, seriously. jews in the Holocaust did hard labor for Germany’s lines on the map. is that justified? to save germany from the allies? what is wrong with you?

        • albigu@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          1 year ago

          Care to elaborate? AFAIK, forced labour under the threat of harm and no conditions for escape fits very well into most modern definitions of slavery. But go on, why should I support Ukraine despite this?

            • albigu@lemmygrad.mlOP
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              1 year ago

              I don’t follow. Yes, they are at war. How does that justify labour conscriptions and banning fleeing? I do care about people not dying and having dignity, you see. But sending teenagers into slaughter or forcing them to work to that same slaughter industry doesn’t help anybody. It is basically a self-genocide by the Ukrainian government. No wonder that it started as a war against eastern Ukrainians.

              Who here exactly defends genocide when the only thing I want in this war is for the suicidal tactics of the Ukrainian government to pause for a second so that civilians can flee and live better lives elsewhere? But you don’t care about that, you’re a liberal who will justify every war crime from your favourite North Atlantic countries and their puppet governments, under the guise of empathy.

              See, 2 can play that game of ad hominem. Answer the question: “How is this not comparable to a modern slave state?”

    • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Ha, a throwback to my childhood.

      “If we don’t send thoughtlessy load more people and munitions into the meat grinder right this minute, then the terrorists win!”

      • Durotar@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Ukraine has never asked to send people. You have no idea what’s happening and why, do you?

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Lol we’ve have a news megathread every day since the SMO started full of military, economic, historical and sociological analysis regarding every new develpoment in the region. You should stop in sometime, you might learn something.

          Like how the US and it’s vassals are shoving Ukranians into the meat grinder by torpedoing every round of negotiations while buying up Ukranian land and assets at rock bottom prices. But hey, I don’t expect you forced conscription and cluster bomb enthusiasts to be well-versed in any situation when it’s so much easier to just vibe out and cheer for Our Team.