That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won’t do shit.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea
Did you mean say “foreign entity” or “China”. Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.
But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
It’s a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
I haven’t heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.
… have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
Look if you say “I’m not involved, it’s not my problem” that’s fair enough. But to say there’s no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
This is exactly the point. Both are bad, but one plays by no rules whatsoever, while the other at least pays lip service to them.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn’t like the CIA movies, mate.
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so…
You would be wrong about most of this.
I don’t think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.
Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US.
I have actually but I don’t see why that’s relevant. You really think people gain knowledge once they step off the airplane into the USA?
. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world.
It sounds like you are not very aware of what’s been happening.
Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so…
So you only care about yourself?
I don’t think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.
Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don’t have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.
But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.
All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.
The CCP has no laws it needs to follow. The US government does. It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited. And no, the NSA, doesn’t. Some systems allows access, but not “all routers etc”. That’s conspiracy theory territory I’m afraid.
It sounds like you are not very aware of what’s been happening.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
You are doing that now though.
The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
Why? Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP? If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
Depends on the topic. I trust NZ government more than the CCP in most things but I fear the NZ government more than I fear the CCP because the NZ government exercises more power over me than the CCP does.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
Why?
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP?
Yes.
If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
As bad as they are they can not exert any power over me. OTOH both the NZ government and the US government can exert tremendous amount of power over me.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
The US government is pretty corrupt. But it is absolutely nothing like the CCP. Does the US government disappear political opponents? Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful. Does it fund infrastructure projects to debt riddled countries so that they have no choice but to sell them all their mineral wealth? Does the US government actively genocide ethnic minorities? Seriously, they are both bad, but the CCP is much worse.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
What?
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
🙄
This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
The US has no control over you, unless you are a citizen there. What are you afraid of?
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
You keep moving the goalpost. CCP is bad, not as bad as the USA, not as bad Saudi Arabia, not as bad as South Korea, not as bad as Israel.
The US government is pretty corrupt.
LOL. “pretty corrupt”.
Does the US government disappear political opponents?
It kills them with drone strikes. Also tortures them.
Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful.
You keep moving the goalpost. CCP is bad, not as bad as the USA, not as bad Saudi Arabia, not as bad as South Korea, not as bad as Israel.
I’m not moving anything. You started using whataboutism to compare China to the US. “The US is worse” and all that. While I disagree with you about this, it doesn’t matter. Multiple things can be true at once. China is bad. The US is bad. Israel is bad. These are all, simultaneously, true.
LOL. “pretty corrupt”.
Yes, pretty corrupt. They are still a government that follows laws. This is why Trump is currently facing legal problems instead of successfully overthrowing Biden in a coup. Currently, Biden cannot pass certain laws because it still requires both the Senate and the House to pass a new law.
You understand that the CCP is a dictatorship right? Single party with absolute control? These things are not the same.
It kills them with drone strikes. Also tortures them.
Terrorists and enemy combatants, yes. Not political opponents though. Is Biden ordering his political opponents locked up and tortured? No? These things are not the same.
From your link: “By law, NSLs can request only non-content information, for example, transactional records and phone numbers dialed, but never the content of telephone calls or e-mails.”
I am not arguing that the US does not do bad things, but that it is not comparable to the CCP. The US still generally tries to follow its own laws. The CCP can and does do whatever it wants.
Lol, this is a book which is widely discredited. The author is a conspiracy theorist, and little if anything of his claims have been verified. I would not use that book as your source of information.
Yes, by helping Israel and Saudi Arabia and Yemen do it.
If you do not see how these are not the same thing then we may as well move on.
Kimdotcom
So a very high profile person who flagrantly broke the law in multiple jurisdictions has led to the US asking for extradition, which is a thing many countries will do, and is still here. This is your example? Are you a high profile owner of a massive piracy platform? No?
Also it’s one thing to be spied on by ad companies (which is bad enough) but quite another to be spied on by an adversarial dictatorship.
Exactly. Same reason I won’t use Chinese brand phones.
That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won’t do shit.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
Did you mean say “foreign entity” or “China”. Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.
It’s a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
I haven’t heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
Look if you say “I’m not involved, it’s not my problem” that’s fair enough. But to say there’s no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.
This is exactly the point. Both are bad, but one plays by no rules whatsoever, while the other at least pays lip service to them.
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn’t like the CIA movies, mate.
Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so…
I don’t think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.
All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.
I have actually but I don’t see why that’s relevant. You really think people gain knowledge once they step off the airplane into the USA?
It sounds like you are not very aware of what’s been happening.
So you only care about yourself?
Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don’t have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.
But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.
The CCP has no laws it needs to follow. The US government does. It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited. And no, the NSA, doesn’t. Some systems allows access, but not “all routers etc”. That’s conspiracy theory territory I’m afraid.
I am, I’m just not a paranoid conspiracy nut.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
You are doing that now though.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
Why? Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP? If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
Depends on the topic. I trust NZ government more than the CCP in most things but I fear the NZ government more than I fear the CCP because the NZ government exercises more power over me than the CCP does.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
Yes.
As bad as they are they can not exert any power over me. OTOH both the NZ government and the US government can exert tremendous amount of power over me.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
The US government is pretty corrupt. But it is absolutely nothing like the CCP. Does the US government disappear political opponents? Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful. Does it fund infrastructure projects to debt riddled countries so that they have no choice but to sell them all their mineral wealth? Does the US government actively genocide ethnic minorities? Seriously, they are both bad, but the CCP is much worse.
What?
🙄
The US has no control over you, unless you are a citizen there. What are you afraid of?
You keep moving the goalpost. CCP is bad, not as bad as the USA, not as bad Saudi Arabia, not as bad as South Korea, not as bad as Israel.
LOL. “pretty corrupt”.
It kills them with drone strikes. Also tortures them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
Yes, by helping Israel and Saudi Arabia and Yemen do it.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dotcom-wins-settlement-from-police-over-the-2012-dawn-raid-which-saw-him-arrested/2EGYXEM64SKGMYHJPZ23QNIRO4/
I’m not moving anything. You started using whataboutism to compare China to the US. “The US is worse” and all that. While I disagree with you about this, it doesn’t matter. Multiple things can be true at once. China is bad. The US is bad. Israel is bad. These are all, simultaneously, true.
Yes, pretty corrupt. They are still a government that follows laws. This is why Trump is currently facing legal problems instead of successfully overthrowing Biden in a coup. Currently, Biden cannot pass certain laws because it still requires both the Senate and the House to pass a new law.
You understand that the CCP is a dictatorship right? Single party with absolute control? These things are not the same.
Terrorists and enemy combatants, yes. Not political opponents though. Is Biden ordering his political opponents locked up and tortured? No? These things are not the same.
From your link: “By law, NSLs can request only non-content information, for example, transactional records and phone numbers dialed, but never the content of telephone calls or e-mails.”
I am not arguing that the US does not do bad things, but that it is not comparable to the CCP. The US still generally tries to follow its own laws. The CCP can and does do whatever it wants.
Lol, this is a book which is widely discredited. The author is a conspiracy theorist, and little if anything of his claims have been verified. I would not use that book as your source of information.
If you do not see how these are not the same thing then we may as well move on.
So a very high profile person who flagrantly broke the law in multiple jurisdictions has led to the US asking for extradition, which is a thing many countries will do, and is still here. This is your example? Are you a high profile owner of a massive piracy platform? No?