But you can make cheese out of it and cheese is life.
Cheese is death
Vegan cheese exists. It is easier to make, is much healthier and animals do not have to suffer.
I’ve tried vegan cheese… It’s gross dude.
It doesn’t even taste like old cow titties and animal suffering. 0/10
I’ve had some pretty tasty vegan cheeses before. I’m not a vegan or vegetarian, but I like trying new things. The vegan cheeses made with fermented coconut were really good substitutes imo (and I hate coconut)
Vegan cheese exists
Yeah, but it’s shit.
The suffering is what makes cheese so delicious.
If I learned anything from keto it’s that substitutes are always rubbish. Find new things and forget the old.
I did keto 2 years ago to lose some weight and found some very good substitutes. The low carb bread I got at the market tasted just like regular bread. Almond butter was a fine substitute for peanut butter. Pork rinds made for decent croutons in a salad. Stuff like that. Worked for me, anyway.
I’m sorry you’re being downvoted. I support vegans in so many things. Unfortunately vegan cheese is an acquired taste and not a good replacement for meat eaters.
Would you argue in the same way for slavery or child labour?
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Cows aren’t human
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Dairy cattle can be happy
Hope that helps.
Cows aren’t human.
Sooo? They are thinking and feeling individuals. Or do you imply that basically anything can be done to beings, when they are not human?
Dairy cattle can be happy
So could be slaves and/or exploited children. But would that make it right?
It’s appalling to even imply the existence of a happy slave.
Would you be happy with dairy farming if the cows didn’t have brains but we’re just headless bags that worked with an autonomic nervous system only?
If so it’s a question of degree.
Personally: I’ve interacted with cows sufficiently to see they don’t compare to a cat in intelligence, and I have issues with people keeping cats.
Cows are some of the dumbest creatures we’ve domesticated - second only to sheep.
I don’t think they should be abused but I don’t think they’re being abused by giving dairy.
I’d be fine with them being brainless. I’m fine with them being nigh unto brainless as they are now.
I’d be fine with them being brainless
So, I’m not 100% getting where you are going with this argument, but I think what you are saying is: If beings have less brain capability they are less worthy of being treated with the same respect as beings with higher brain capabilities. And ultimately, that it would be OK to kill beings that have less brain capabilities.
I don’t think they’re being abused by giving dairy.
Could you spell out for me what is needed for a cow to give milk? Because I think we need to clarify “what actually happens” to cows in that process in order to classify something as abuse or not.
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Yes. Just like you don’t have any qualms squishing ants.
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Very aware of dairy cows and the veal industry. Also aware that herd animals do not give a single fuck about their young.
- By that logic, you would also have no problem in killing people with lower brain capabilities - like people with dementia or mentally challenged people.
- Demonstrably not true and I don’t get where you would pick up such a false bit of information.
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- The relevant part is they can feel pain, suffer and want to live.
- Not sure how you measured this but even if kids in Auschwitz’ were laughing, we’d still agree the gas chambers were wrong right?
Hope that helps.
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Yes but they’re not suffering or feeling pain on any dairy farm worth talking about. We’re not talking about the abhorrent practices of factory farming, we’re talking the ethics of dairy, period.
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They weren’t laughing in the gas chambers you sick fuck. What the fuck is wrong with you. How dare you cheapen the horror of children clawing at the doors screaming.
- Over 90% of dairy in western countries comes from factory farms so that’s exactly what we’re talking about.
- How dare you cheapen the horror of animals clawing at the doors screaming.
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So you’re cool with the 10%? cause so am I.
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I would personally torture every cow on earth if it saved a single human child.
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No because I can tell a cow from a person.
So do you think that we should be allowed to do anything we want to non-human beings, or should there be a limit for that?
There should be some limits, sure. But but comparing it to slavery or forced labour is just silly anthropomorphising.
OK, cool. So where do you think the limit should be?
(Also, was not a comparison but an analogy. But that doesn’t really matter, does it?)
Well, that’s an extremly complex questions and there are many cases to consider and personal opinion on these can vary a lot.
For example one of the least limited cases should be animal testing for medical purposes. There should still be limits, but they have to be carefully decided by weighing the potential benefits against the suffering caused.
Another prominented case would be factory farming. I think that’s quite bad and also makes for a poorer end product. But I don’t think there is anything fundamentally wrong with keeping livestock for eating it. But the details of how regulation should work exactly are again quite complex and beyond the scope of a lemmy comment.
For example one of the least limited cases should be animal testing for medical purposes
Point given. Or at least half a point… The problem I have with animal testing is, that for
- alternatives exist, that often are safer and better that animal testing - but they are often not considered of plain out forbidden just because of some ancient laws and regulations. Technology has advanced and could prevent a lot of animal suffering, just regulations have not been keeping up with the innovation.
- Animals in testing facilities are treated like shit their whole life, just because it is “cheaper” that way. I mean yeah, there might still be cases where there is no current alternative to animal testing, but treating the animals with absolutely ZERO respect is not acceptable imho.
I don’t think there is anything fundamentally wrong with keeping livestock for eating it
So, if I would keep some cute, fluffy dogs or cats at my place just so that I can kill them tomorrow and eat them - maybe even sell their meat - would that be still be OK for you?
Aw yeah milk that slave. The flavor comes from the suffering.
Troll.
I have never tasted cheese made from human slave milk, so I can’t really give an educated opinion.
Troll.
You asked a question dude
Yes, and you provided an answer that wouldn’t bring anything to the table, except for wasting the readers time. By definition, you are trolling.
If you are not: Make a point that can be taken seriously.
Wait what? Bro you’re on the internet.
And you provided a question that wouldn’t bring anything to the table, except for wasting the readers time. Turnabout is fair play. You brought up an insane hypothetical non sequitur, I’m just following along.
You know you’ve succeeded with a truly unpopular opinion when you get more downvotes on Unpopular Opinion while no one is complaining that it is a popular opinion.
Diets are pretty intrinsic to how people live. This is the equivalent of an edgey atheist teenager shitting on Christianity as an unpopular opinion.
It is an interesting picture you are painting and true, it is probably how most people would see it.
However, your comparison with religion is a little bit off. Engaging in religion is (and should be) a personal choice that is just including you - i.e. it should not force or be forced by others.
But by choosing to consume animal products, you don’t just choose something for yourself - you are forcing someone else into pain and ultimately death.
That is the reason why “vegans are so annoying”. We don’t give a crap about what YOU do - but we want to stand in for the victims that can’t make themselves be heard. I hope this makes it easier to understand our motives and why we feel the moral obligation to act on them.
Have a good one!
I could lay out an argument that supporting religion means you support slavery and crusades.
I’m not going to engage your false utopia. Human brains literally developed from agriculture and cattle farming. Reality is meat consumption is a need for the majority of the planet and beyond an individual consumers’ responsibility to solve.
You choose to live on each day despite knowing you will consume and pollute inherently, yet seek to criticize the choices of others?
Human brains literally developed from agriculture and cattle farming
If if this was true, this doesn’t prove that it is still necessary or even beneficial today. Humans did a lot of things in the past that would be seen as strange today (you already mentioned crusades for example). It does not follow that, just because “we did it in the past” means we still need to do it today.
meat consumption is a need for the majority of the planet
I don’t fully agree. Please give me circumstances where there would be a NEED for this.
Down playing your choice to kill as a diet is pretty dystopian
Down playing the destruction of ecosystems as a diet is pretty dystopian.
You eat food from farmed land too smarty.
Are you suggesting we start keeping human women on farms to milk them? Do you really want to go to the store and buy a bottle of breast milk to pour over your cereal?
LMAO
Ethics tip: If something feels pretty fucked up when doing it to a human it’s probably safe to assume you shouldn’t do that to a non-human animal
Yo what that was your first thought instead of rice milk, oat milk, coconut milk, almond milk or just not eating cereal. You are a big boy, you’ll be alright without baby milk.
I have nipples. Will you milk me?
Soy milk is better alternative. If you don’t like the taste, try coconut milk, oat milk, almond milk, cashew milk, etc.
If I use milk in anything it’s usually oat milk, but I still like things like cheese and ice cream sometimes
There are vegan versions of those too, they’re just less common.
There’s no good vegan alternative to cheese. I tried a couple and they all taste like shit.
I’ve had some vegan cheeses that were made with fermented coconut and they were pretty darn good. And I hate regular coconut.
My honest tip would be: Just forget that something like cheese even existed and eat something else. Even I (as a full time vegan) don’t really like the “cheese” we have - but since I just don’t eat anything “cheese-like” anymore, I’m really not bothered to be honest.
Ice cream alternatives are actually really good now.
Fake cheese is still foul.
Sometimes I get the coconut milk ice cream. It tastes good but it’s definitely not the same, so I go back and forth
smh, this just kicks the can down the road. almond milk is for baby almonds. and what are the lil newborn coconuts gonna drink? cashews will actually die if they don’t have the proper milk in the first few weeks.
Can’t I just go to the neighbors?
Do you really want to go to the store and buy a bottle of breast milk to pour over your cereal?
But… that is EXACTLY what people are doing?! 🤷 Maybe not from a human, but still from a mother.
A truly unpopular opinion, congratulations
And at some point in the future, it will be truly popular! 😁
Cows, like we have bred, should not exist in the first place. Its a cruelty to have such big udders and while cows can live up to 15 years most milk cows will live to the age of 5-6 because they are used like bio-machines, getting bred and sucked dry all through their short, miserable lives. “But dairy cows can be happy”. Sure man, just like the people in the mines and sweatshops…
The lactose intolerant agree with you
Don’t drag us into this
It’s too late!
*sound of black hole sucking you up*
Lactaid brand milk work?
Lol @ all the downvotes raining in this thread. If it weren’t normalised the way it is right now, and some wacko would introduce it today, people would be disgusted and outraged. Just like with dog meat in China and South Korea, that one dish with a grown chicken embryo called (from the top of my head) Balut, and fermented herring as they eat in the nordics.
People just don’t like to have facts shoved in their faces that make them think. Think about how something they’ve grown up to see as normal, might not be normal after all. The logical emotion from that is outrage, dragging your heels, etc.Factory farming sucks and should be abolished.
That being said, in ancient times they gave us milk and we gave them grain during winter. Contracts can always be revisited, but don’t act like this was entirely one sided.
That’s pretty elegant.
I’m stealing it
I guess you haven’t seen a cow in your life.
Cows need to be milked to stay healthy, because they will still produce milk after her calf is weaned.
They don’t need to be impregnated in a rape rack though
This is the only opinion an empathic human beeing should have. 👍
