President Joe Biden condemned by the move by the International Criminal Court to seek arrest warrants against Israeli leaders, saying that there was “no equivalence” between that country’s actions and those of Hamas. Earlier today, the ICC issued a legal report in which a panel of international law experts supported a prosecutor’s conclusion that there […]
  • IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.worldEnglish
    263·
    6 months ago

    genocide it is not.

    It wasn’t really in question when this was published back in October. It was genocide then and it continues to be genocide.

    “The UN Genocide Convention lists five acts that fall under its definition. Israel is currently perpetrating three of these in Gaza: “1. Killing members of the group. 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group. 3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.””

    https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide

    • MxM111@kbin.social
      415·
      6 months ago

      These are act of genocide. True, but the intent matters too (and I am sure it is described in the document you are linking to). And destruction of Hamas is not the intent compatible with genocide. If Israel wants to destroy citizens of Gaza as a group, then it is doing really shitty job, since somehow the civilian to military ratio is well below expectations for urban warfare.

    • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
      217·
      6 months ago
      1. Killing members of the group. 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group. 3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.

      Which are also what Hamas perpetrated on 10/7.

      • SacralPlexus@lemmy.world
        16·
        6 months ago

        But what about….

        Yes we know that Hamas is awful, evil, etc. That doesn’t give a moral pass to do just whatever to people who aren’t Hamas.

        • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
          112·
          6 months ago

          You’re right. Both sides are awful, and neither side gets a pass. Both sides have been accused of crimes against humanity and war crimes by the ICC.

          That said, neither side has been accused of genocide by the ICC. The difference between “genocide” and “crimes against humanity” is very important to some (for good reason), but not very important to others (also for good reason).

            • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
              13·
              6 months ago

              Hamas is not generally considered to have committed genocide, which suggests that the definition of genocide does not depend only on those three factors.

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
                4·
                6 months ago

                And how does that absolve Israel?

                The precursors to genocide are actively unfolding before our eyes. On 10 October, the head of the Israeli army’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), Maj. Gen. Ghassan Alian, addressed a message directly to Gaza residents: “Human animals must be treated as such. There will be no electricity and no water, there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell”. The same day, Israeli army spokesperson Daniel Hagari acknowledged the wanton and intentionally destructive nature of Israel’s bombing campaign in Gaza: “The emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy.” Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” source

          • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
            2·
            5 months ago

            I’m confused, why are you acting like anyone here is defending Hamas? One foul deed does not make up for another. Israel is figuratively and literally shooting through civilians in order to kill Hamas. How is that acceptable?

            Imagine if the police handled hostage situations like this. Some crazy guy pulls one of your loved ones away from you, puts a gun to their head, and threatens to fire… So the police just shoot them both.

            Would you accept that? Would you thank the officer that shot them both?

            • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
              12·
              5 months ago

              I don’t think anyone is defending Hamas. The question is, did Hamas commit genocide?

              As evil as they are, I do not think they committed genocide. I think most would agree.

              But they meet the same of OP’s criteria as Israel. Hence, those criteria are not enough to establish that Israel committed genocide. (That does not mean Israel did nothing wrong!)

      • MxM111@kbin.social
        31·
        5 months ago

        What Hamas did, was terror act, not genocide. What Israel does is war with Hamas in Urban territory where civilian to militant ratio 2:1 is considered to be much better than average urban warfare.