• lurklurk@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    I don’t think we’ll agree on immigration. In my eyes the proven track reckord of Trump should be ebought to make it obvious, but you don’t agree and I doubt I can say anything that would be more convincing than the pervious Trump administration

    this is frankly a reductionist take. the situation today is not like the situation in the 1930s. if anything, Biden’s approach of milquetoast risk-aversion is probably closer to Chamberlain than a hypothetical Trump presidency would be

    Have you looked into what Trump is proposing on Ukraine? He does keep it vague, perhaps to allow people to imagine freely like you do here, but he keeps talking about negotiating a peace, which in itself is a stark difference from say Biden who seems to think that such things are up to Ukraine, being a sovereign nation and all.

    Here’s a more concrete proposal on the Trump side: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/

    Of course you can imagine any policy you want, as trump isn’t being clear, but the fact that he refuses to be clear on this should be a signal in itself. Another signal should be that Nato leadership and Europe are making moves to insulate the support of Ukraine against a Trump win. A third signal should be how desperately Russia seems to want Trump to win.

    consider why the US doesn’t allow Ukraine to use American weapons in Russia. consider why US aid is limited to just enough to keep Ukraine alive. consider why the US has been openly pumping untold millions into Ukraine under the guise of the National Endowment for Democracy since the early 90s (and almost certainly many millions covertly, too)

    I don’t understand your point here. Are you implying that Russia was justified in invading Ukraine because they were getting economic support from the US? Poland was too after the fall of the soviet union, so I guess they’re next?

    this is a proxy war for control of Ukraine. if you were to make an analogy to WW2 it would be more Spanish Civil War than the invasion of Poland

    The war in Ukraine is not a civil war. It is a sovereign european nation being invaded by russia to expand their territory, much like poland during ww2.

    • kava@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      war in Ukraine is not a civil war

      The war started in 2014 with Euromaidan. Where the pro-Russian government got ousted in a violent coup/revolution/uprising (what you call it depends on what you believe). The pro-Russian president had to flee the country.

      Then a new government was quickly appointed, unconstitutionally, and that government is the current one. That administration was made up of far right leaders (think people like Andriy Biletsky). This administration immediately started cooperating with the CIA the very first day.

      Then Russia invaded Crimea and started the covert operation in Donbas a few days after that.

      It’s more complicated than saying it’s an invasion of a sovereign nation. It’s not a civil war either, you are right. But I think it’s closer to the Spanish Civil War than the invasion of Poland.

      Really it’s: a coup triggered a war of independence against Russia. Ukraine was firmly in Russian sphere from 91 until 2014. Once that stopped being true, Russia invaded.

      But I like to think of the Spanish Civil War because it’s the proxy war before the war. It’s a place for big powers to test new technologies. Get ready for the inevitable showdown.

      • lurklurk@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Ukraine was a sovereign state globally recognised as such, including by Russia. It’s not a war of independence against Russia anymore that Poland had a war of independence against Germany in 1939

        This is russian propaganda revisionism, and if you’re arguing in good faith I can only advise you to make a serious inventory of what sources of news and information you consume

        • kava@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          japan is a sovereign nation too. one that doesn’t get to decide whether a foreign power from across the pacific ocean gets to park military bases in their land.

          there’s a long spectrum from totally under control -> totally independent and you will find that virtually every smaller country is rarely totally independent

          i’d like to challenge you and show me one thing i said that was false. it’s easy to throw shade say something like “everything you are saying is because you have fallen for propaganda, whereas me I am pure and untouched by propaganda”

          russia was content with Ukraine being loosely coupled. They were not OK with Ukraine totally leaving the Russian sphere and joining the west. this is what triggered the invasion of Crimea and the little green men from the east.

          you can see a similar, albiet different, dynamic with Taiwan and China. China is content (for now) with Taiwan remaining sort-of independent. but once the US for example says something “Taiwan is an independent country” they would invade.

          • lurklurk@lemmy.world
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            6 hours ago

            japan is a sovereign nation too. one that doesn’t get to decide whether a foreign power from across the pacific ocean gets to park military bases in their land.

            Japan did try to invade quite a lot of places and then lose the ensuing war to end up there though. Ukraine didn’t really do that

            russia was content with Ukraine being loosely coupled. They were not OK with Ukraine totally leaving the Russian sphere and joining the west. this is what triggered the invasion of Crimea and the little green men from the east.

            That rethoric is applicable to almost any russian neighbour. Which countries would you be fine with russia invading if they win in Ukraine? Finland again? The baltics again? Poland again?

            Also Russia’s invasion isn’t something “triggered” any more than an abused spouse “triggers” the violence against them. Russia could have followed international law and not invaded, and so far it seems it would even have been better for them. Blaming Ukraine for getting invaded is pretty russian propaganda in my eyes.