This was originally posted as a comment under an image in 196,but due to the popularity of 196 I decided to move it to a (Hopefully) less federally public space, due to harassment concerns.
The image was a post saying,
I have so much love in my heart for trans girls like. girls girls girls literally omg youre a GIRL ISNT IT WONDERFUL!!! any girl who’s been like wish was a girl" and then found out they actually ARE a girl is a precious jewel. I love girls
I love the idea of this, and I’m happy people can feel that way, but deep down inside me, I feel like I haven’t “earned” the right to consider the possibility of calling myself a girl/woman.
People afab put up with so much shit and since I haven’t felt that side of it it’s like trying to be a part of a group that sees you as the enemy trying to act like one of them, you know? That may be extreme but I’m not good at words so that’s the best way I can think to phrase the feeling.
Anyone else feel this way?
I will add that I have known and worked with several ftm trans people and don’t really have the same feelings the other way around. Basically something “you seem like a dude as far as I can tell/am aware/concerned”
Trans women are women. We suffer under patriarchy too, indirectly before we transition and directly after we do. We also suffer under cisgendernormativity throughout our whole lives.
We are not the enemies of women. We are women. Cisgender women and transgender women share female solidarity, and we are and always will be allied. Cisgender women and girls (and those perceived that way) are oppressed through patriarchy and misogyny their whole lives. But we suffer from it too. We should have solidarity for each other’s lived experiences. Its the transphobic people who are trying to portray us as enemies. They are wrong. Any feminist, any enemy of patriarchy, understands how transphobia negatively affects cisgender men and women too.
I guess enemy was probably a poor choice of word(wording is hard). Somewhat like, I don’t feel good enough, and I definitely don’t look the part. On the physically masc - femme scale my body is like 99% masc
I don’t suffer under the patriarchy
goes on to describe ways she suffers under the patriarchy
Is the butchest biker bull dyke who ever lived, a woman?
It’s not about meeting some ideal before you can consider yourself a woman. We come in all shapes and sizes. You are not your body, you are your mind, which happens to have a body, which in at least some ways does not suit the mind that is you. Don’t conflate the mutable meat Gundam you pilot, for your self.
Holy shit I think I can finally get it! Thank you, I feel like I’ve seen this idea in other words but it didn’t quite hit in the same way.
That quoted bit, is that broadly rephrasing my comment? If so, I might need some more explanation.
Yeah, it would have been a lot harder to get the thing that succinctly. You talk about afab people putting up with shit and how you don’t have the right to count yourself among them, but throughout this thread there were bits of explanation of how you have suffered because of expectations of womanhood that are patriarchal norms.
I see now. I was reading your comment just as a reply to the one immediately above it. I had not really considered some of this stress does eventually stem from the same patriarchal system. Wow! It makes complete sense. I think my therapist was driving at that idea at one point but didn’t quite hear it that way. Ok, so I guess maybe I do relate to cis women a little bit 😅
I love your meat Gundam analogy. 😂 If my previous comment was not clear this is what finally clicked in my brain. It makes so much sense. It does feel like it’s more relatable to anyone else who feels uncomfortable about whatever aspects of their meat Gundam, cis or not.
You not feeling good enough to be a woman because of your body is because of transmisogyny. Many cisgender women feel their bodies aren’t worthy due to perceived physical masculinity.
You’re undoing a lifetime of internalised transphobia and misogyny. That doesn’t go away overnight, even when you recognise it for what it is. Undoing it is also the work of a lifetime
A lifetime?!
I think I’m realizing internalized opression(the generalized term b idk wtf all is going on) has been my hold up for a while. Like I’m spinning my wheels but can’t make and progress.
Also, as dumb as it may sound(always discounting myself) it’s always kind of an honor to have you acknowledge a post. I thank you girls so much for this instance! It has been a life saver these past couple of months.
A lifetime?!
Sorry, that sounded a bit more doom and gloom than I meant. What I was trying to get at is that we’ve always got internalised bullshit going on, and we spend our lives unlearning it. But it’s a journey, not a destination. We don’t ever get to the point where we don’t have anymore work to do.
Which is really meant to say that you should try and give yourself time without being too hard on yourself if you don’t get there instantly, and that’s as true today as it will be in 50 years. :)
Also, as dumb as it may sound(always discounting myself) it’s always kind of an honor to have you acknowledge a post. I thank you girls so much for this instance! It has been a life saver these past couple of months.
I’m just happy that communities like this have popped up. It’s nice to have a safe haven with folk who walk the same path :)
I get that it takes time. Honestly, I think if you wake up one day thinking you have nothing else to learn, or no more growing you need to do, you’ve lost.
My therapist also reminds me, it’s a long process, you don’t just wake up one day with all the answers. But that doesn’t stop the autistic parts of my brain from being like “NO I NEED ANSWERS NOW! How am I supposed to walk a path I don’t know without answers?” but that’s how life is anyway.
Right now, the answer is “do the things that help me develop and consolidate my sense of self”
There is a process to that, and if you develop an awareness of what you would like your process to look like, then you may find that embracing the process rather than the final result of that process to be helpful in letting you navigate it all
internalized transphobia does hit comrade but you are a girl
We wouldn’t call a cis woman any less of a woman if she never had that past of being subjected to the violence of patriarchy, and that aside, as a trans woman you have suffered the violence of the patriarchy in a way unique to womanhood. The thing that makes you a woman is that you are your truest self when you confidently align with womanhood, and however you choose to align with womanhood, you are your fullest, happiest, most authentic, and most alive self when doing so, even if you feel like you don’t have your bearings quite yet and you’re on unfamiliar ground for a bit.
You’re literally so valid and I have so much love for you and if you aren’t in touch with what it takes for you to feel that in your heart yet then I hope me feeling that you’re valid is enough for the both of us
Thanks for the kind words!
I’m beginning to realize I have a few unrealized internalized things going on.
I too feel like I haven’t earned womanhood. Not from lack of harassment, I grew up neurodivergent and redheaded. But there’s some other X factor I feel like I’m missing but can’t put my finger on. Nope, you not alone.
I feel a similar way occasionally. I think you have to relate to womanhood not in terms of suffering but in terms of joy sometimes.
That is a good way to look at it. Although, I don’t know how well I relate to anyone in terms of joy 😂 Until a few years ago I didn’t realize how depressed I had been how much of the time,and til the last month or so have never felt less depressed for this long.
I know this is an old thread, but the book Whipping Girl by Julie Serano may be a good read. Book is about trans misogyny and touches on some of the feelings you shared.
Thank you!
I will definitely check it out!
Just to say it, super fucking relate on lots of the feelings in this thread. Thank you for making this post lol.
No problem! My trauma has been staying rent free for too long, it’s about time I put it to work for someone (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
Oh my god yes I relate to this post so much, I’m still questioning but I’m so afraid of feeling like an intruder
The fun part of transitioning is that you’ll get both traditional misogyny and new, unique flavors!
Seriously though, joining a group of people that you aren’t used to being in will always feel weird, but luckily that goes away with familiarity. I feel like my advice is always the same though, which is to find a therapist informed on gender issues if you can afford one.
Fortunately, I do have a great therapist, who is on their own gender journey.
Another issue I’ve come to realize is basically always feeling like the one person trying to force themselves into a group they don’t really belong in. Even ones I was in for years and felt pretty close to the people in it. Like the thought is always there. “I don’t really fit in here”
You feel like you haven’t “earned” the right to call yourself a woman because you haven’t been through what a cis woman does (which I don’t think is true but that’s what I think you’re saying), yet you prefer to move out of very public space to talk about this? This would indicate that you have been through some sort of adversity regarding your identity, and yes, it may not be the exact brand of adversity a cis woman would feel (ask yourself if every individual woman has experienced the same adversity. Yes there are obvious patterns but you know what I’m saying), you are saying that one must fight for their gender, that you have fought for yours, but yet don’t deserve it.
The first part sounds accurate. It’s like, I’m not good enough to be included, you know?
I haven’t directly had any issues on here, but I wanted to prevent it since that community seems popular and all over the fediverse.
