• WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    extraordinary claim and therefore is going to require extraordinary evidence

    All it takes to prove that the massacre did happen is evidence. Where is this extraordinary evidence?

    Proving that something doesn’t exist is much harder. There was a liberal in here earlier though that was also saying that we’re a bunch of conspiracy theorists. I gave him links, you can see them below. First hand reports from people who were actually there say that there was no massacre. This includes a CBS reporter and a Latin American diplomat.

    • kool_newt@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Why would I believe your sources over others? Especially when there are what appear to most people to be pictures of the Chinese state using lethal military force against protesters and dead bodes on the ground. Are these fake pictures?

        • kool_newt@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Do you believe we went to the moon? If so why? If not why?

          Do you believe human caused climate change is a thing? Why?

          You’re believing somebody, why do you believe those people?

          • 🏳️‍⚧️ 新星 [she/they]@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            Do you believe in Last Thursdayism? I choose not to because reality has no meaning that way and the consequences are still the same.

            Do you believe in your own birth? After all, you couldn’t possibly remember it. How do you know aliens didn’t just materialize you out of nothing? Again, I choose not to subscribe to the alien-materialization theory because there’s a much better hypothesis that seems to make a lot more sense.

      • WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Again, fantastical claims. Where are these pictures?

        Edit: I love that this is the second person to come in here who gives us shit for being conspiracy theorists, disregards first hand eyewitness accounts, and runs away when pressed for evidence. Murder trials in the US must work very differently than I’ve been led to believe.

    • aleph@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      First hand reports from people who were actually there say that there was no massacre.

      In the square itself, maybe, but all eyewitnesses agree that the PLA shot and killed many hundreds of protesters in Beijing during the protests, which had been (until that point) largely peaceful.

      So while you at the author of this article might be correct to say that there was no actual massacre in Tiananmen Square itself, there certainly was a massacre going on around it.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm

      https://earnshaw.com/writings/memoirs/tiananmen-story

      https://apnews.com/article/4d3bc613370f4f1d97bf841d1ef5ef6c

      • WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Gold star for you! This is significantly better than the usual nonsense that’s pushed. But after having claimed a massacre for so long, this still seems like damage control to me.

        Do these photos look like the aftermath of a massacre to you? Or do you think that the CPC account of the situation might be closer to reality? They claim that after the protest was broken up, some violent instigators began attacking the military in the area around the square. And yes, hundreds died, and many of them were soldiers.

        • aleph@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Do these photos look like the aftermath of a massacre to you?

          Yes, they do. The term “massacre” doesn’t necessarily imply that the protestors didn’t fight back after the PLA started killing them.

            • aleph@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              There was a massacre that morning. Journalists have to be precise about where it happened and who were its victims, or readers and viewers will never be able to understand what it meant.

              Again, the reporter’s point is not that “there was no massacre”; it just didn’t happen in the square.

              • WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                Yep. Even after being forced to admit that he made it up, he’s still reporting about things he admits he never saw. Which I have to admit, is a pretty bold move.

                • aleph@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  So you initially linked it as a source and now you’ve realized what it actually says, it’s unreliable and worthless?

                  Seems par for the course around here, tbh.

                  • WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    I’m really confused by this one. He admitted he lied, and so did many of his colleagues. But you believe that he’s still telling the truth about the massacre?

                    Look, we don’t know exactly what happened there that night. But it’s clear that the west lied through their teeth about the entire thing, and the lies are self perpetuating at this point. China’s story seems to check out. You HAVE to see that.

                    Furthermore, why is this event of a couple hundred casualties pushed so hard by the media as proof of China’s evilness, when Mai Lai or the 228 incident are barely talked about? This is 100% pure propaganda, and it’s mostly, perhaps entirely untrue.