I was banned from r/LateStageCapitalism for politely supporting a post with this reasoning. I pointed out that Trump would make the conflict even worse for innocents, and voting third-party to make a statement against neoliberal Democrat rule (which is bad) is a position that, in this moment, only the least-vulnerable in America can take when there is a risk of outright christo-fascism threatening the least-enfranchised.
Banned. “This is a socialist sub.” Proceeded to see a post from a mod openly mocking anyone who entertained lesser-of-two-evils arguments; they sounded like a sneering teenager. Over there, it’s all theory and no parsing of theory with reality.
You say her critics are haggling about being perfect? Progressives arent even asking for perfect, they are asking for the bare minimum to follow our existing laws: neutrality.
And your implicit minimalization of whats going on is pretty terrible. We arent talking about school vouchers, PETA, or something trivial and grey shaded here, its a much more black and white and life and death conversation.
Therefore actively supporting a genocide in a far rightwing war with American weapons and now American boots on the ground and American interference in the UN VS being truly neutral and enabling peace are pretty darn far apart high cost positions.
If Israel didnt have those weapons, they wouldnt be able to do so much killing, with so much impunity. This is illegal, unethical, and the cost to the western world order and our reputation is astronomical. So your characterizing it as strving for perfection doesnt seem right to me.
And you arent even considering the second order effects to the concept of democracy and sanctity of borders globally. We have neutered the UN, and that enables and encourages every militant thug in the world.
There’s a big difference between “not perfect” and “enabling a genocide, giving weapons to an ally that is starting a war with all the Middle-East and the UN, and burning children alive in hospital refugee camps”.
There were lynchings going on during the time Ho Chi Minh was hosting the American soldiers who were fighting the Japanese. And Ho tried to get American support before the US spurned him.
And how is getting Trump in going to stop the Israelis? He’d be giving them nukes on Inauguration Day.
People have already asked for Biden and Harris’s help in stopping this genocide and have been spurned. In this analogy, it’s already after they’ve been given the middle finger while bombs have been given to the people destroying their families. And it was barely applicable as it was.
And Israel already has nukes. But doubt they’ll use them, the whole point is to take the land they’re invading all over the place, not irradiate it. There’s not a lot Trump can give them that Biden and Harris aren’t already. They’ve even got boots on the ground now so we have an excuse to invade when some will inevitable die.
Israel has nukes. And I for one think it’s much more likely that they’ll decide to go out in a blaze of glory if they think that’s the only option, like if their main ally abandons them. Did you consider that possibility? That Israel might decide to start WW3?
I have a feeling Israel would rather just stop invading other countries and genociding Palestinians than instigate a nuclear holocaust and killing all of themselves. Seems like the smarter open, no? It’s not like they haven’t been slapped down by the US before. They always go too far. This has happened before and will happen again.
Hell, even Reagan and HW have withheld arms and money to Israel before for invading Lebanon or taking over Gaza or West Bank settlements, and that was after they had nukes. Biden is to the right if Republicans on this issue.
I have a feeling Israel would rather just stop invading other countries and genociding Palestinians than instigate a nuclear holocaust and killing all of themselves.
I’m sure that’s exactly what will happen; that the bombs will only kill the people you don’t like and won’t hurt anybody else whatever. Because that’s how atomic bombs work, right?
IIRC he had actually originally appealed to the US for help, and there’s a good chance he’d have gotten it too if France didn’t threaten to leave NATO and join the Societ bloc if America took any course of action besides helping them continue to suppress the Vietnamese.
At the time, the West ‘losing China’ was a political hurricane. Stalin and Mao were seen as unstoppable and nuclear war was on everyone’s minds. France was seen as a vital part of the West’s alliance, and even the threat of them leaving was disastrous.
Yeah, I existed there for quite a while and I’m by no means a socialist. Then I think it was Tiananmen Square Day the year before the exodus to Lemmy that they suddenly cracked down on anyone who was like, “okay but we don’t want to starve or get run over by tanks either, so democracy is probably a good thing to keep.”
Thats probably true but is still a guess. Trumps infinite capacity to be bribed-- probably cheaply-- must conflict at some level with his overt antisemiticism. Once he gets enough of his little fingers on our taxpayer money he wont need AIPAC bribes, and then what will he do? His and Vance’s answer to “The Jewish Question” will be the same answer he gives to every other nonwhite subgroup. AIPAC must be thinking of how to deal with Vance and hasten Trumps demise along. Its the only plan that makes any sense for them.
We know Harris will 100% support Israeli demands and continue whatever Biden starts, which is bad enough.
And, obviously, Trump will end America one way or another, so thats a consideration too.
Just love how all of the sudden a fresh crop of.ml weeds are in my feed to be blocked because they realized all the old propaganda spreaders were blocked and refused to not be listened to about how letting even more genocide happen is the true anti-genocide position.
I was banned from r/LateStageCapitalism for politely supporting a post with this reasoning. I pointed out that Trump would make the conflict even worse for innocents, and voting third-party to make a statement against neoliberal Democrat rule (which is bad) is a position that, in this moment, only the least-vulnerable in America can take when there is a risk of outright christo-fascism threatening the least-enfranchised.
Banned. “This is a socialist sub.” Proceeded to see a post from a mod openly mocking anyone who entertained lesser-of-two-evils arguments; they sounded like a sneering teenager. Over there, it’s all theory and no parsing of theory with reality.
Here’s the Socialist argument for Harris.
Ho Chi Minh would have know all about America’s long history of slavery and genocide.
Ho helped the American OSS run missions in Vietnam during WW2.
Your allies don’t have to be perfect.
You say her critics are haggling about being perfect? Progressives arent even asking for perfect, they are asking for the bare minimum to follow our existing laws: neutrality.
And your implicit minimalization of whats going on is pretty terrible. We arent talking about school vouchers, PETA, or something trivial and grey shaded here, its a much more black and white and life and death conversation. Therefore actively supporting a genocide in a far rightwing war with American weapons and now American boots on the ground and American interference in the UN VS being truly neutral and enabling peace are pretty darn far apart high cost positions.
If Israel didnt have those weapons, they wouldnt be able to do so much killing, with so much impunity. This is illegal, unethical, and the cost to the western world order and our reputation is astronomical. So your characterizing it as strving for perfection doesnt seem right to me.
And you arent even considering the second order effects to the concept of democracy and sanctity of borders globally. We have neutered the UN, and that enables and encourages every militant thug in the world.
He still wanted help against the greater threat.
Trump is literally talking about being a dictator and ending elections.
There’s a big difference between “not perfect” and “enabling a genocide, giving weapons to an ally that is starting a war with all the Middle-East and the UN, and burning children alive in hospital refugee camps”.
There were lynchings going on during the time Ho Chi Minh was hosting the American soldiers who were fighting the Japanese. And Ho tried to get American support before the US spurned him.
And how is getting Trump in going to stop the Israelis? He’d be giving them nukes on Inauguration Day.
People have already asked for Biden and Harris’s help in stopping this genocide and have been spurned. In this analogy, it’s already after they’ve been given the middle finger while bombs have been given to the people destroying their families. And it was barely applicable as it was.
And Israel already has nukes. But doubt they’ll use them, the whole point is to take the land they’re invading all over the place, not irradiate it. There’s not a lot Trump can give them that Biden and Harris aren’t already. They’ve even got boots on the ground now so we have an excuse to invade when some will inevitable die.
Israel has nukes. And I for one think it’s much more likely that they’ll decide to go out in a blaze of glory if they think that’s the only option, like if their main ally abandons them. Did you consider that possibility? That Israel might decide to start WW3?
I have a feeling Israel would rather just stop invading other countries and genociding Palestinians than instigate a nuclear holocaust and killing all of themselves. Seems like the smarter open, no? It’s not like they haven’t been slapped down by the US before. They always go too far. This has happened before and will happen again.
Hell, even Reagan and HW have withheld arms and money to Israel before for invading Lebanon or taking over Gaza or West Bank settlements, and that was after they had nukes. Biden is to the right if Republicans on this issue.
I’m sure that’s exactly what will happen; that the bombs will only kill the people you don’t like and won’t hurt anybody else whatever. Because that’s how atomic bombs work, right?
IIRC he had actually originally appealed to the US for help, and there’s a good chance he’d have gotten it too if France didn’t threaten to leave NATO and join the Societ bloc if America took any course of action besides helping them continue to suppress the Vietnamese.
It’s amazing how history works.
At the time, the West ‘losing China’ was a political hurricane. Stalin and Mao were seen as unstoppable and nuclear war was on everyone’s minds. France was seen as a vital part of the West’s alliance, and even the threat of them leaving was disastrous.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
Nice to see r/LateStageCapitalism is still letting tankies run off allies.
Was it ever not a tankie sub?
Yeah, I existed there for quite a while and I’m by no means a socialist. Then I think it was Tiananmen Square Day the year before the exodus to Lemmy that they suddenly cracked down on anyone who was like, “okay but we don’t want to starve or get run over by tanks either, so democracy is probably a good thing to keep.”
Yeah. I have all that garbage filtered from my feed and advise others to as well.
They are the leftist version of r/thedonald
No think. Only jerk
Thats probably true but is still a guess. Trumps infinite capacity to be bribed-- probably cheaply-- must conflict at some level with his overt antisemiticism. Once he gets enough of his little fingers on our taxpayer money he wont need AIPAC bribes, and then what will he do? His and Vance’s answer to “The Jewish Question” will be the same answer he gives to every other nonwhite subgroup. AIPAC must be thinking of how to deal with Vance and hasten Trumps demise along. Its the only plan that makes any sense for them.
We know Harris will 100% support Israeli demands and continue whatever Biden starts, which is bad enough.
And, obviously, Trump will end America one way or another, so thats a consideration too.
Just love how all of the sudden a fresh crop of.ml weeds are in my feed to be blocked because they realized all the old propaganda spreaders were blocked and refused to not be listened to about how letting even more genocide happen is the true anti-genocide position.