This makes more sense than Horseshoe Theory, since I’ve yet to see someone go so far right that they wind up on the left.
The political spectrum is a 3D one. You’ve got left wing and right wing then you’ve got dictatorial and liberal, but the third dimension is the important one. The Z axis is intelligence. The right seem to move both to the right but also down into the realm of deeply stupid, after a while they hit the edge of the graph in the x-axis but the z-axis seems to extend infinitely into the stupid.
“Hey, people with too much money and power tend to become anti-human psychopaths. We should probably re-arrange society to avoid this problem.”
“Yeah, a dictatorship sounds like exactly the solution to that!”
All because Lenin betrayed the revolution, then wrote extensively about how betraying the revolution is actually good and how there needed to be a dictator to somehow make everyone equal.
And then he used famine as a weapon against the Ukrainian farmers, setting a precedent that Stalin would use just a decade later.
He mostly did that because he created a moneyless society that took everyone’s money and resources in hopes of preventing anyone from hoarding anything… And then… whoops we’re having a civil war and we need other countries to back us in the fight and we can’t pay them. Time to tax the people who we just told wouldn’t need money anymore…
I think he could have pulled it off, but he moved too quickly. Absolute fucking clown show
I think he could have pulled it off, but he moved too quickly. Absolute fucking clown show
From everything I’ve read about him I don’t think so. From the sounds of it he never really wanted socialism he just wanted to be a dictator and saw socialism as a way to get it.
I doubt he was ever going to follow through on the whole communism thing.
Because he started the civil war when he disbanded the National Assembly after it’s first day. All because his party lost the election.
The simple history of 1917 Russia. WW1 is going poorly and in February the people rise up and force the Tsar to abdicate.
This is a major victory, but not a complete one. There’s an interim government that isn’t widely popular and a promised National Constituent Assembly to write a constitution.
Lenin then comes back from exile and starts table rousing. Saying that there doesn’t need to be an assembly, that he should just be in charge so he can make the country communist.
Now, there was quite a bit of socialist frevor among the people, but the majority of people in the country side didn’t exactly trust the Bolsheviks.
There’s a whole dual power thing going on for most of the summer as the people form small councils to rule themselves while the interim government has mostly control over the military and such. Because they’re paying.
In November Lenin launches his own revolution and casts down the interim government. But he still has to allow the promised National Assembly election even if he thinks it a waste of his time.
And his party loses badly to the rural socialists. So Lenin spends the next month complaining like the little bitch that he was, demanding that the assembly give up all power to Lenin’s unelected jackboots.
And come January, the Assembly meets for the first and last time because Lenin is still butthurt for losing the election.
Lenin then went on to ban all other political parties.
This and other shit he pulled sparked the civil war, giving him the excuse to use famine as a weapon against Ukraine, which was not a happy part of the Soviet empire.
Tankies when they finally begin their new world order, but are asked to report to the mines because the qouta for poets was met before the jobs were even posted
Our best hope for a good future is an all powerful benevolent dictator.
Imagine Superman if he decided that he didnt wanted to fit in and just wanted everyone to be as happy as possible.
They write stories like that, but then it all goes horribly wrong and then becomes a “The status quo is good, making the world better just makes things worse” soapbox
Half because “Lib Shit”, and half because if you build a perfect world there’s no conflict.
I know Marvel did a storyline where Tony Stark fixed everyone’s problems and then went full villain on a level that made the Civil War look like a couple arguing on what they’re doing for dinner tonight in order to get back to the status quo of “Sci-Fi Technology exists and is abundant, but normal people don’t have it.”
See also: Why Reed Richards can cure an alien disease that kills in a matter of minutes and is unlike anything ever seen by man before by the end of the issue, but is absolutely useless if someone gets cancer.
The more one’s political thinking is made up of slogans from pre-packaged ideologies, the less it is anchored in actual Principles.
Tankies, same as Fascists, don’t really do the “what are my values” part in determining their own political posture and the “does this fit my values” part of judging a situation and instead just follow a “good people”/“bad people” “logic” were it’s somebody else who tells them who are the “good people” and who are the “bad people”, hence why it makes absolute sense for them to defend an agressor (in their view “good people”) against a victim (either not “good people” or even “bad people”).
Mind you, this is not just Tankies and Fascists: look for example at how the situation in Gaza is politically interpreted in Germany and what you find is almost always a “This <entire etnicity> are good people who can do no wrong hence we support those who claim to represent them even when mass murdering people for being of another etnicity” kind of “logic”.
I would even go as far as saying that most of modern politics is anchored on such ultra-reductive pre-packaged ideologic takes separate from Principle: that “center” is a bit further up and closer to Tankies and Fascists, IMHO.
I would expand your point and say that even big parts of society don’t really care about values but “good peopl/bad people”. It isn’t exclusive to politics.
Saddest political compass ever.
You could draw a similar diagram in other contexts. Antivaxxers coming from the left-leaning hippy crowd and converging with the religious crowd on the right. Etc.
Yeah like Richard Dawkins pushing anti-trans conspiracy theories and platforming anti-science religous bigots.
Reading this breaks my heart. What anti trans conspiracy is he pushing?
This sucks so much. It was so disappointing, I looked up to this guy a lot. His books were the key part in my radicalisation pipeline but now I see him praising Musk and other stuff like this :(
Sam Harris straight up started a “Free Will isn’t real, now come cherrypick Buddhism and blame Arabs for destroying Europe with me!” cult, and became best bros with Jordan Peterson.
Or Peter Singer wanting to genocide disabled infants.
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So they’re more useful to society than you.
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Yes, I am literate, you ableist ghoul separated from a fascist by an accident of environmental cause.
The allies did no fighting at all? There was no lend lease?
Gargling any authoritarian’s balls?
What does the y axis represent?
It’s not a chart. There’s no axis’
Yes, there is. The Axis is on the far right.
Im not understanding what you mean, are you saying the closer 2 things are the more similar it is? if so what does the black line represent?
Parallel universe.
Propaganda and use of lies
I got banned in a community for calling out a tankie who for tacitly supporting October 7 and calling him a terrorist because of it. Israel’s disproportionate response by killing civilians does not make October 7 better. I got banned for calling a spade, a spade, but allow doublespeak if it favours their biases.
No, you got banned for being a massive arsehole. Seems to be a habit for you.
Mod log:
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=5540123
“I got banned in a community for calling out a tankie who for tacitly supporting October 7”
is a wild way to describe that thread lmao
I have a side hobby of fact checking claims of supposed mod tyranny because it often results in a schadenfreude/comedy gold mine. Watching this gobshite fall over themselves trying to justify their shite behaviour didn’t disappoint.
Lemmy is rad
Of course calling out hypocrisy from tankies will always be deemed “arsehole” by tankies (notice that all the communities that banned me are all tankies). The modlog says it all: I called out the previous comment for deliberate lying. Anyone with two brain cells to rub and time to waste to backtrack the conversation could put two and two together.
I can’t imagine why you’d ever be banned for such reasoned discussion as…
Least crybaby murderer. Every 50 cents for you goes towards your milk bottle.
And
You should be put into a re-education camp and come up with better script. Your mommy and daddy will come soon and kiss your booboo. And tuck you into your new bed at the reeducation camp. If your teachers caned you badly for not improving, mommy and daddy will kiss your booboo
And
As expected from an .ml user, a terrorist. And an unsurprisingly ignorant one who can’t even read that the article presented contradict what they said haha.
All of what you were banned for is like this or contains material like this. You really can’t see the issue here?
Oh I guess it works better to speak softly on those who deny genocide.
You weren’t speaking to anyone denying genocide, though
That doesn’t even make sense and you know it.
You called your opposite a terrorist. That’s not “getting banned for calling out hypocrisies”
Your comment contents speak for themselves. One can call out tankies without being a massive wanker. Apparently you can’t, though.
So supporting two state solution and calling out the deliberate turning a blind eye to October 7 atrocities is being a wanker? Mate, if there is a wanker here it’s not me. Both of my eyes are not blind.
I never said or even suggested any of that. You’re simply deflecting and doing so quite poorly.
It’s amazing, the mental acrobatics people like you engage in to avoid taking any responsibility for their behavior. At least I admit when I’m being a git.
Sure buddy. Let the brigade roll.
“It’s not my (rude, aggressive, bad argument slinging, hypocritical) behavior, it’s everyone else, all the time! I’m being persecuted!”
-TankovayaDiviziya, copium addict and possible narcissist
FTFY
You don’t blame a kicked dog for biting. That’s not a tankie opinion, it was everywhere a year ago.
ETA: Hell, I just remembered that I dropped that line during a first date in February and got an “Exactly!” in response.
Rampant murder, rape, and kidnapping of innocents at a music festival being likened to something as innocuous as a “dog biting”. Typical tankie metaphor.
And before you go “But Israel does the saaame!!!” Then those people should be caught and punished too just like the Hamas terrorists should be.
Human beings aren’t dogs.
true and irrelevant
Quite relevant. As being angry is not an excuse for a human being to kill innocents. Humans have rights, including those innocents who were killed.
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When did I say that? Can you quote me on when I said that?
If not you’d better delete that.
Apologies, I misread your comment. I do disagree with the implication of animals not having rights, and with the mystical differentiation between human and non-human animals
We aren’t talking about dogs here, neither are we talking about biting. We are talking about humans making the deliberate choices to kill, rape, abduct, and torture other humans. You do blame people for murder, no matter why they did it. Doesn’t mean Israel doesn’t do evil shit and their policy towards Palestinians isn’t disgusting, but it doesn’t justify murder, rape, a d torture. That doesn’t mean that Israel should not be pressured to stop some of their policies and operations which are openly in defiance of international humanitarian law, not justified by need, unnecessarily and unjustified brutal, and against common decency. To claim that the actions of either side are forced upon them by necessity or somehow dictated as response is to deny their humanity, their agency as individuals and political entities, and their right to self-determination. Neither of them is justified on their actions and all of them are committing grave, non justifiable, unnecessary, and self defeating evil.
Lmao why is this extremely reasonable comment being downvoted? Some pieces of shit in this thread.
Finally, someone gets it.
There is a reason that the most centrist position on the Palestine-Israel issue is two state solution.
It is not necessarily a centrist position, it is the only realistic solution so far proposed. Every other proposal known to me stands no chance at ending hostilities, hatred and oppression. At least if one is not willing to commit genocide or institute a permanent state of apartheid. Peace achieved by the total destruction of the opposing side unfortunately appears to be something some few influenceal people on both sides apparently see as acceptable or even preferable. These individuals must be removed, before peace can be achieved. The solution I would prefer would be that of a federated, strongly decentralized state containing both Israel and Palestinian lands, to allow both groups secure, orderly and mutually recognized access to their respective and their shared heritage, communities and their homes. Unfortunately this appears impossible in the current situation and has always been an incredibly ambitious plan, but perhaps it can be achieved at a later time, when the conflict has ceased for some time and mutual understanding and respect have been established.
Why do you think October 7 happened in the first place?
And how is taking hostages, many of whom are foreign nationals with no dog in the race, going to support Palestinian freedom? Hamas could attack military personnels instead. I’ve gotten mental gymnastic response that civilians were still killed by independence fighters in history. But it’s not like there were no other previous independence movements, which could be emulated, that strictly told to target only military personnel and consciously avoid civilian deaths. That mental gymnastic insisting there is no other choice, even though there is, is tantamount to approving terrorism.
It’s important to separate Hamas as an organisation and Palestinians as people. This isn’t rocket science. This isn’t a sports competition where you either support one team or the other. Not on you specifically, but it’s clear that many people’s lizard brain activates and fall on simplistic heuristics, and look the other way of the atrocities of the team they pick. Israel’s genocide is bad, and so is Hamas’ attack on October 7. First thing I thought when I heard of the attack was “I understand why it happened, but it’s going to add more ammunition to ultra-Zionism”.
What would then be the preferable position, in your opinion?
Oh… of course, an ml user will ask a loaded question, and ignore everything someone just said precisely to the loaded question just asked right now.
I read your text, comprehended it, and asked a follow-up accordingly. I am not pressuring you to answer anything.
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It’s in a blahaj community actually.
It was okay for the most part but that community seems to give a pass to October 7 supporters as long as the quiet part is not mentioned out loud.
It’s wild that you can just oppose Nazis now, and NATO psychos just can’t even fathom it.
Tracks though. NATO was founded with Hitler’s former commanders.
What tankies can’t fathom is EU=/=NATO. But I guess Russians and their sock puppets think it’s either join them or be absorbed in one way or another.
Oh yeah? When was the last time the EU didn’t sacrifice their own interests to support NATO.
Several members of the EU are not even in NATO and staunchly neutral (Sweden and Finland were vehemently against joining NATO until the Russian invasion of Ukraine).
Yes, they maintained their neutrality as the US installed a far-right puppet regime next door in Ukraine.
The United States has indeed installed puppet governments in many countries around the world in the past. But they have nothing to do with the Ukrainian elections.
The US was behind the Maiden Coup, and has been running a far-right authoritarian puppet government in Ukraine ever since.
Spoken like a true tankie.
Considering y’all just apply that to anyone who opposes arming Nazis, I’ll take it with pride.
“50 cents have been deposited in your account”
Well it was also overwhelmingly founded by people who defeated aforementioned Nazis. The allie’s fought to kill the idea, the soviets just killed the people and stolen the idea
The Soviets defeated the Nazis. The fascist western politicians, afraid of the spread of communism, merged and allied with what remained of the Nazis to fight the Soviets through NATO.
