• Steve@communick.news
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    10 days ago

    The Democrats threw it away.
    For several races now they’ve been told by many actual progressives, they need to embrace economic-populism. They refused to. Instead embracing the Cheneys. They got out played by a convicted felon, who’s older than his IQ (thanks to another lemmon for that line. I love it).

    • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
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      9 days ago

      Man… don’t take this language personally. It’s just the only way I know how to speak right now.

      In what fucking world do you think a more progressive candidate would’ve turned Michigan and Pennsylvania blue?

      Christ. I hope I’m fucking wrong. Because I do believe in a more progressive agenda. And I’m in Michigan. But this takeaway is absolutely fucking nuts to me.

      The last thing we need is for the hardcore blue states to be even bluer while the battleground states are all red.

      I don’t know, man. Explain your math to me. Because I can’t wrap my head around it. But I haven’t slept in like 36 hours, either, so maybe it’s just me.

      • Steve@communick.news
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        9 days ago

        I didn’t say progressive. Progressive is a very broad term that can apply to all sorts of things.

        I said economic-populist. One of the few things nearly all of us agree on in this country, is that the corporations and the ownership class have too much power in politics, and they’re getting that power by stealing money from the working class. Trump was good at speaking to that, without actually doing much to help. The Democrats did some to help. But not enough, and they didn’t want to sell it much for fear of scaring off the ownership/donor class.

        Leave behind all the racial, sexual, social justice progressive stuff. It’s divisive and won’t help you win. Helping the poor generally, will disproportionately help those people more anyway. Just without putting them in the spot light.

      • TheRealKuni@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        Harris lost Michigan by fewer votes than the number of people who voted “uncommitted” in the primary.

        I don’t think the lesson here is to be more moderate or more conservative.

        • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
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          9 days ago

          You know, uncommitted doesn’t really bother me. Had I bothered voting in the primary, I’d probably have voted uncommitted, too. Because I’m not really happy about the administration’s handling of the Israel-Gaza situation.

          But I damn sure voted for Kamala yesterday. I hope the Jill Stein voters feel really fucking smug about teaching Democrats a lesson when Trump tells Netanyahu to just push all the Muslims into the fucking ocean, and sells them the bulldozers to do it. I hope they all fucking cheer when they watch it livestreamed, Xclusively on X.

          Because I assume that’s what they wanted out of this election, and by gum, they fucking got it.

          • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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            9 days ago

            I wonder if democrats feel good about supporting (leadership) or excusing (voters) genocide because they thought they had to to win, but lost anyway.

  • Delta_V@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    This time? There was no real opportunity for meaningful change. The Democratic party is far right economically, and they depend on the donations of plutocrats and megacorps. Regardless of either Democrats or Republicans getting elected, the donor class wins and working Americans lose. Some will say Harris attempt to appeal to the right wing is what made her lose, and perhaps there is an element of truth to that. Its unlikely that the Republican base she attempted to woo would actually vote for a Black woman running as a Democrat over the old, rich White guy running as a Republican. However, the owners of the Democratic party - the ones who immediately had millions of dollars to donate the day Biden dropped out - they didn’t lose. The only way the owners could lose is by appealing to progressives and winning an election.

    The time to begin doing something differently was decades ago, building power and organizing from the bottom up. Socialists need to begin running in and winning local elections, and pushing hard against First Past The Post elections.

  • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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    9 days ago

    The US is, apparently, not ready for a woman president. Especially a non-white woman president.

    Y’all weren’t entirely ready for Obama either, given how he was treated.

  • Evil_incarnate@lemm.ee
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    10 days ago

    Something I haven’t seen discussed is that Kamala is a woman. There are a lot of misogynistic voters who will refuse to vote for a woman.

    • pressanykeynow@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      That explanation drives you away from the problems Democratic Party has. If people want to cast their vote, they will, if they are sexists or racists they vote for the other party. In this election we saw that a lot of people from both sides that voted in the previous election who didn’t want to vote now. It was much more people for the Democrats likely because they voted last time and were disillusioned in the democratic process.

    • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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      10 days ago

      Nobėdı ƿantſ t mentcėn ðiſ bikȯz it u̇ndṙku̇tſ ðeıṙ fæntėſı ðæt moſt ėmeırikėnz aṙ ſıkrit ſocėliſtſ weıtıŋ f æn ėmeırikėn Marx t ſpaṙk revėlucėn.

      spoiler

      Nobody wants to mention this because it undercuts their fantasy that most americans are secret socialists waiting for an american Marx to spark revolution.

      İt’z dju̇ſt ð leftƿacd vṙjėn v “Ekėnȯmik Eıŋgzuyitı”

      spoiler

      It’s just the leftwashed version of “Economic Anxiety”

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      9 days ago

      Tammy Baldwin and Elissa Slotkin both won in states Kamala lost, so that narrative doesn’t really hold up.

  • EvilHaitianEatingYourCat@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    As someone from Europe who only has Lemmy.world account: i am surprised, i thought you guys were handling it lol good job in keeping the façade tho, it was convincing

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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      9 days ago

      Dnc clowns were staffing news and politics subs. God forbid anyone had an unsanctioned discussion

  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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    9 days ago

    Not surprised. The Harris campaign ran on the status quo, which many people are dissatisfied with, and pivoted to the right on various policy, when the people who like right-wing policies already have a party catering just to them - and that can come at the cost of alienating their own base or fracturing the coalition. For instance, many Latinos trend conservative in their values, but they voted Dem in the past because of all the “Build the wall” stuff. But then the Democrats said, “Trump’s just using it to posture, we’re the ones who are actually going to build the wall,” and they lost a bunch of Latinos and didn’t win over Republicans.

    Promoting the Dick Cheney endorsement was an obvious unforced error, not even Republicans like him. Honestly a lot of their attempts to “reach across the aisle” seem more like patting themselves on the back for being “reasonable” than genuine attempts to understand and appeal to actual human beings. Like, generally, I think it’s a better strategy to accept that most of them are unreachable and focus on mobilizing your base, but if you are going to commit to that approach and make it the whole backbone of your campaign, then you actually have to understand who you’re trying to reach and how they think and why they do the things they do. Like, there are genuine ideological rifts on the right that are exploitable, like nationalism vs libertarianism, but Cheney and Bush tried to do something that both sides of that hate and it was a colossal failure, so bringing him on board just papers over those disagreements and makes it easier for them to consolidate around Trump.

    A major problem that liberals have is that they’re attached to this idea of “reasonableness” where the best ideas will just naturally win out in the marketplace of ideas, and when the world doesn’t actually work like that they just can’t accept it. The right isn’t reasonable, they are (at least sometimes) proud of not being reasonable, because reason is the tool of the educated elite. And that actually almost makes a weird kind of sense, it’s like, imagine arguing that the earth is flat against a five year old - you could probably “win,” right? You have way more information in your repertoire and more experience with debate than they do, so you could selectively pick-and-choose things to support your point. So imagine being that five year old, having the sense that the adult is taking you for a ride, but knowing that you can’t debate or reason well enough to win on their terms. That’s the kind of psychology that we’re dealing with.

    There are three ways you can respond to that situation. Either you say, “OK, these people are crazy and unreachable, let’s focus on mobilizing our own base,” or you say, “OK, we can work with that, we just have to go beyond reason and try to build trust or reach them on an emotional level,” (good luck with that, since that emotional level includes absolutely despising establishment career politicians, along with a substantial number of people who make up the dem coalition), or, lastly, you can keep trying to reason with them, and you will lose. Like, you could legitimate run a candidate who policy-wise is to the right of the Republican candidate on every issue and right-wingers still wouldn’t vote for them if they looked and sounded like a typical Democrat. You just have to wrap your head around that concept.

    • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      Given that Trump constantly does things that should screw himself over, and then he trips on a rock and somehow it’s fine. I think it comes down to two things: Trump is a very skilled con man (his one tangible skill) with unbelievable luck, and America is chock full of idiots. I really believe now that he could literally shoot someone on 6th Avenue in front of network television and get away with it.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        9 days ago

        It’s not that simple. Sure, he’s conning people, but it’s not because he’s particularly clever or skilled. He’s simply offering them an image that’s different from the establishment Democrats (and establishment Republicans, for that matter) who they despise. Of course, the right-wing propaganda machine plays a role, but the people themselves do a lot of the work towards inventing explanations for how he’s on their side. They believe in him because they want to believe in him, and they want to believe in him because he presents himself as an alternative to a failing system.

        • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          You’re absolutely right that he’s offering people the image they’re looking for. But speaking as someone with a few years training and experience in stage acting - nothing bigtime but legit, I’m not talking high school play - Trump has always been generally quite a good performer. He’s been called a “consummate liar” but it’s the same thing. He understands nuances of character and uses them consistently - a set of voices, facial expressions, head tilts, etc, that communicate sincerity. One of his bits is a straightforward tone that exudes honesty and gets people to remember stuff. He’ll say like, “Listen to me now…” and then repeat something he just said in this very “I’m leveling with you” tone. Sometimes he pauses to let it sink in and then repeats it again. Very effective way to get people to believe and remember a message. He has all kinds of little tricks to sound more believable to people who already want to believe him.

          To me it all looks like well practiced technique but there’s probably also some natural talent. I bet he was super good at lying to his parents as a kid. His skillset is actually pretty rare, and is a hallmark of a really effective salesman (or actor). His other talent, which is really the con man part, is picking the right audience. On some level he does understand them and how to push their buttons. With a vastly different character he could have been a fantastic therapist - although the rapist part probably would have ruined that.

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            9 days ago

            Regardless of whatever skills he may have, material conditions are the primary reason for his relevance and success. This is generally how the world works. People say the same thing about Hitler, that he was so charismatic that he just hoodwinked the German people, but it was really the declining material conditions that allowed him to come to power. Trump is merely a symptom of a larger disease, and even when he’s gone the disease will remain, the conditions that created him will still be there waiting for another person to take advantage of the same things in the same ways.

            • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
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              9 days ago

              Harris tried to address our material conditions too, just different ones. At this point I think a major reason Harris failed is that she’s a woman and mainstream America still isn’t ready for that, amazingly.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                9 days ago

                That’s completely false. Tammy Baldwin won in WI, Elissa Slotkin won in MI. It’s completely incoherent to blame the fact that she’s a woman.

                Harris’ message did not resonate with people struggling to pay their bills. She completely attached herself to the policies of the Biden administration and the broader status quo.

                • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
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                  9 days ago

                  Yes there have been women in Congress for many years. In fact if you wanted to make that point better you could have referred to Jeannette Rankin, who was elected to the House of Representatives in 1916 and again in 1940. It’s not “incoherent” to point out the fact that many people are still against having a woman as President. When Hillary Clinton ran in 2016 it came up a lot. And don’t take my mention of it as agreement - I voted for Harris.

  • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
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    10 days ago

    Not surprised at all. You guys need to tone down the insane hyperbole by a solid 90% and actually start trying to coexist with your fellow countrymen instead of inviting in any and every threat you can find because they’ll happily confirm your biases in public while fleecing the nation behind the curtains. You need to stop playing stupid word games to try and redefine reality, as though how you talk about things can change what they actually are. You need to actually put some real effort into learning and working towards change instead of just parroting everything you heard on social media today then pretending you’re so much smarter than everyone else.

    • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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      10 days ago

      Ekſkyuz M f heziteıtıŋ ėbaut bııŋ frendlı ƿið pıpėl hu “diſėgrı” ðæt Uı hæv ineılıėbél hyumin ruıtſ.

      spoiler

      Excuse me for hesitating about being friendly with people who "disagree* that I have inaliable human rights.

      İf ðiſ z’n dju̇ſt ė muıkrokȯzm v kėnſṙvėtiv pėtṙnėlizm. “Y did’n ækt greıtfᵫl inu̇f t M f letıŋ Y hæv livıŋ privlidjz, ſ nau Y kæn hæv ðem bæk ƿen Y lṙn t pleı nuıſ ƿið M æ a muı frendz hu aṙ teıkıŋ ðem frėm Y!.”

      spoiler

      If this isn’t just a microcosm of conservative paternalism. "You didn’t act grateful enough to me for letting you have living privileges, so now you can have them back when you learn to play nice with me and my friends who are taking them from you.

        • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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          9 days ago

          Ðı’ṙ alredı ſelebreıtıŋ getıŋ t g mæſk ȯf ðæt Prȯdjekt 2025 z totėlı ð plæn, b cṙ budı, “egzædjṙeıcėn.”

          spoiler

          They’re already celebrating getting to go mask off that Project 2025 is totally the plan, but sure budy, “exaggeration.”