More than a thousand Harvard students walked out of their commencement ceremony yesterday to support 13 undergraduates who were barred from graduating after they participated in the Gaza solidarity encampment in Harvard Yard.
Asmer Safi, one of the 13 pro-Palestinian student protesters barred from graduating, says that while his future has been thrown into uncertainty while he is on probation, he has no regrets about standing up for Palestinian rights.
Meanwhile, this is Harvard University senior Shruthi Kumar, who went off script as she gave the English commencement address, slamming Harvard for denying the degrees. She read from notes that she pulled out of her graduation gown.
This should get air time. While the others walked out in solidarity together, she’s putting herself on the line individually. It gives administration a name to the crowd.
There is a video in the article where her speech is aired. Her speech went so hard the word “slammed” might be justified for once.
This goes so hard
Damn that crowd went so wild if they cheered any longer Harvard would call the police to tear gas them.
where’s the piped bot when you need it?
Especially since the posters marked it “for kids” for some dumb reason, so you can’t save it for later.
Yes, so fucking stupid. I was looking for a way to report it as not a kids video but there weren’t any options that didn’t also flag it as something inappropriate.
Wow, how incredibly brave.
i cant save this for later because it’s made for kids? what?
Damn, Gen Z is killing it
If we do not stand together then we’ll fall alone.
If we don’t stand together, we fall apart.
Pithy and multi-faceted. (Also not mine.)
In looking to credit this, I can’t find anything, but apparently Franklin said “we must all hang together or we will hang separately”, which is 100% the same vibe.
We hang together, or we hang separately.
Asmer Safi, one of the 13 pro-Palestinian student protesters barred from graduating, says that while his future has been thrown into uncertainty while he is on probation, he has no regrets about standing up for Palestinian rights.
I guarantee this person that half a dozen institutions around the world will issue them a degree with full credits already earned just for their standing up for Palestine.
Are those institutions worth as much as Harvard on your resume?
At this point it looks like they are worth more… so…
As someone who has a great deal of respect for academia, my opinions on the administrations of many average and top universities has declined significantly. In the last month or so.
Sadly, probably not in practical terms.
Even if someone is angered by their actions, the employers are unlikely to hold it against those holding degrees, it isn’t their fault.
Meanwhile the jobs that only would accept Harvard or similar ivy League won’t care about why they didn’t actually get the degree, they just see that a degree was not from their precious “Harvard”. This may be a hard requirement or just a massive advantage branding wise for your university.
If this weren’t the case, Harvard couldn’t charge so much to attend, no one would pay.
So maybe if withholding the degree came with a big refund for all the money spent for the diploma they refuse to give, but as it stands…
Sure, but let’s say that, for example, La Sorbonne says they have credits earned for a degree instead.
There are many prestigious institutions in other countries that might offer them a degree.
I’ve never heard of La Sorbonne. Which is likely because I’m an ignorant American, but so are many of the people usefully swayed by the “Harvard graduate” title in professional life.
Why do you think that many of the people usefully swayed by Harvard wouldn’t be usefully swayed by La Sorbonne just because you’ve never heard of it?
Simple, because I could be in a position to hire someone and wouldn’t notice “La Sorbonne” as anything noteworthy when flipping through resumes. And it’s not just hiring where prestige can be useful, it’s business pitches, op-eds, political speaking. These aren’t things universally judged by HR managers who, making the assumption they’re even good at their job, might recognize elite foreign institutions, they’re judged by everyday people who might not even be able to name the full top 10 US-based universities, but know the name “Harvard”.
I’ve met plenty of Harvard undergrads so they don’t hold a mystique, but the paper they get from the institution is nevertheless a valuable asset.
I’d rather doubt it. They worked really hard to get into and graduate from Harvard, there’s a reason they got into that school. There’s a reason they got a degree there. It was probably their dream. It was an accomplishment they could be proud of, and one they knew that would help further their dreams in the future. To suggest they could just get one anywhere else is dickish.
And after this fiasco I’d wager their feelings have changed.
You think they’re entire life goals have changed? I’d rather doubt it.
Of course they are, because now you have this whole affair to write about. You were good enough to graduate from Harvard, so good that you got famous because of your just actions, and then you got a degree from somewhere else.
If you want to work at some unethical company, they might not take you, but if if it’s a place that has some semblance of integrity, then your resume is rock solid.
A lot of companies don’t like “troublemakers”, no matter their core ethics. They demonstrated that they’re willing to speak their mind publicly even if the people “above” them tell them not to and that’s something nearly all “above” people (e.g., managers doing hiring) can’t tolerate.
Very possibly depending on the institution.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, it’s a valid question and I don’t think you’re asking it to be mean.
Of course not but you will get downvoted anyway cause this is Lemmy
Who the fuck cares
Probably those students who paid for the classes and work so hard to graduate at Harvard I would imagine. Probably matters a lot to them. I think maybe suggesting that it’s no big deal they had their degrees stripped from them unjustly Because they can just get one from somewhere else is kind of asinine to say.
You get why this tracks with Lemmy though right?
That’s not the point I’m making.
Attending a graduation ceremony is a different thing than being able to graduate. I think I read earlier that they were banned from the former, but I had not seen where they would literally be denied their actual degree.
As this article points out they’re barred from graduation itself.
Thank you for the correction. Yes with all the talk of the commencement I wondered… but this article updates & confirms it.
which essentially means that I am a student not in good standing and will not be allowed to get my degree
Your info is out of date. The university has since stated that the 13 students are on academic probation for a year, and will be ineligible for graduation. In short, they’re being held back for at least a full year.
And realistically, the uni is likely waiting for the fervor to die down, before they find some bogus reason to kick all 13 out entirely. But they know they can’t do that while the spotlight is on them, so they’re barring the 13 from graduating while they wait for people to lose interest.
In short, they’re being held back for at least a full year.
Which means they will have to pay for another year of tuition. This sounds like it’s going to work out pretty well for Harvard’s bottom line.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. Tbh I never even considered that as a possibility, though you could be right - we’ll see what happens.
No, they’ve been placed on probation and cannot graduate for at least 1 year.
Thank you - THIS Is the kind of detail I have been wanting to know. The college will not simply “delete” their grades for the prior 4 years, so being placed on probation is quite a significant hardship, but less than if that were to happen. Do you happen to know if they would simply get their degree one year later, or have to be “re-admitted” to Harvard again for that to happen? (my guess is the former, or even if the latter then a streamlined re-admission process proffered)
So this sounds like “introducing a delay in getting their degree” process, rather than “banning them from ever receiving a degree from that institution for life” one.
The article mentioned someone who gets to keep their Rhodes Scholarship even, so definitely people are sympathetic, and I wonder if the main harm from all of this will fall onto the institution of Harvard itself.
It is a spiteful action because they know they would lose the ensuing lawsuit if they went further.
I fucking sue you know how much it cost to go to Harvard.
The kids are alright.
They are doing the right thing.
That’s like 50% of the graduating class?
I just checked, and yeah, just over. The graduating class of 2024 has 1,980 students.
And Genocide Inc recruiters looking closely at the ones quietly graduating.
Good for them, it takes courage to go against the grain.
Trump will arrest all Palestine protesters on day 1 and promote REAL genocide in Gaza. All you anti-Biden assholes can eat a dick because that’s what you’ll get from orange Mussolini.
K, and how is that relevant?
In your mind, all these students were “Palestine protestsers” that hate Biden? Can you help us out here? Do you have a full thought you’d like to complete, or are you just scared and angry?
To everyone else, how did people learn absolutely nothing about politics, or even basic communication during the last 8 damn years? Yelling and nagging at people, even if you’re right, will always come off as being an insufferable, annoying asshole to anyone that doesn’t already agree with you and isn’t interested in something you’ve immediately felt the need to put down because you think you already know what’s important
There’s plenty of good books out there for anyone interested in learning how to communicate with others, especially those you disagree with - I recommend You’re Not Listening or I’m Just Saying as good starting points
Sure let’s go!
- They just now finalized the rule and it’s expected to be struck down in the courts under the major questions doctrine. Exactly like Obama’s. If it isn’t struck down then it still has to contend with the massive amount of wage theft in this country. Rights you cannot access are not rights.
- Lmao, that was a pharma corporate push. Biden just didn’t get in the way. But again, the republican courts are already on making sure we can’t have nice things.
- Oh so there’s money to give kids counselors after a shooting, but not money to let the CDC study gun violence?
- Biden came into office with renewable energy already at lower building and maintenance cost than fossil fuels. The IRA actually restricted the growth of renewable energy stuff to make sure American Rich people got more rich. It also protects Big Oil because it made renewable energy more expensive to build and maintain.
- This doesn’t matter because house prices are still accelerating ridiculously fast, now with high interest mortgages.
- The CFPB is as poisoned as the FCC. This rule will last as long as Biden does.
- This is awkward, but this was actually a Trump era law.
- The GOP ran an end-run around this law before it was even “reformed”. They have laws allowing their legislatures to designate a winner instead of listening to the “preference vote”.
- MIC goes Brrrrrrt no matter whose in charge.
- The family farm is dead. This is just another gift to corporations.
- Really? The paint on the special plane is on this list? People are fucking dying.
- Nobody in the Southwest expects the water deal to hold once the chips are down. The federal money is nice but Vegas and California aren’t going to cut back their usage when Phoenix reaches zero day. They certainly aren’t going to tolerate having a day like that themselves so city and state officials downriver can continue to pull water rather than ship it in. We need to incentivize moving people and corporations out of the area.
- Again, the family farms are dead. There are small(er) Ag corps, but nothing like the PR suggests. Corporations thank you for your donation.
- Marijuana did not get legalized. Schedule 3 drugs are still illegal to have without government permission.
- Oh hey, this could be great. If SCOTUS doesn’t kill it for being a novel regulation instead of a novel legislation. They’ve been very clear about that since their EPA ruling about coal.
- We actually just found out that Intel got a giant chunk of this funding for defense industry chips. The other fun problem is related to number 12. The new chip factory is in Arizona. It’s startlingly water neutral but it does still require water. And it brings more people into the water problem.
- This is something that could go either way. It’s not an unalloyed good without legislative follow up that doesn’t exist.
- The MIC goes Brrrrrt no matter who is president.
- As the 2018 plan showed, good vibes do not stop cyber attacks.
- The MIC goes Brrrrrt no matter who is president. But also this is taking credit for something the two countries were already coming around to. Fun extra - Both countries also have unpopular presences of US troops that domestic politics may force out.
- They seriously just gave Biden credit for decades of progress on Cancer. I didn’t know he was president for that long…
- Yup it’s true, look up ADHD symptoms and you too can get legal speed easier than ever.
- This one might actually be the gem on the list, I wonder why it’s buried so far down? Oh yeah that’s to do with Politico’s ownership. At any rate it’s super narrow, well based in law, and leaves a ton of room for companies to wiggle out of their unions still. So SCOTUS might let it stand as a PR show.
- Yes, we know Biden can run a functional government. That’s the basic job requirement.
- Doomed by SCOTUS. It’s not based in law and SCOTUS has made their opinion of that very clear.
- Damn they’re just going to ignore the Infrastructure bills passed by Clinton, Bush, and Obama? I know Trump’s presidency seemed like forever, but there was a before time.
- Yup Biden achieved the “All of the above” energy policy. It really made sure we’re moving towards more oil production. Yup you read that right. They just tried to positive spin Record US Oil Production. And gas prices just keep on climbing that staircase to heaven. So they’re producing more, and keeping record profits doing so.
- MIC goes Brrrrrrrt. Also a repeat of number 20.
- Repeat cyber attacks. I get the feeling someone mandated the list be 30 things long?
- Yay people who can afford air travel can get refunds! For real screw the corporations, but we’ve got bigger problems than airline refunds.
Okay so how did we do? Let’s have a look. 12 things on the list were in process before he started. 14 things that aren’t really more than performative politics. 10 things that are just gifts to corporations with fun wrapping. Okay though how many actually good things did he pass that SCOTUS doesn’t have a standing opinion against? 6, six things out of a list of 30. And they all come with giant asterisks. There’s one thing on the list that’s just straight progress and that’s the NLRB Cemex decision. As always it comes down to democrats failing to reform the supreme court. They aren’t willing to do the actual thing needed to stop living in a status quo set by republicans.
Completely unrealistic bullshit most of your whining isn’t even about Biden lmao. Brrrt my ass lol.
Well that’s because roughly half of the list wasn’t about Biden either, despite the try hard headline.
There’s plenty of good books out there for anyone interested in learning how to communicate with others, especially those you disagree with - I recommend You’re Not Listening or I’m Just Saying as good starting points
[✓] I’m not a robot
It is already a real genocide. Israel just bombed tents in Rafah, causing a child to be beheaded.
Nobody here said anything about biden, you’re just insulting people unprompted.
Edit: What exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting this?
It is related. Moreover, can’t blame him for preemptively calling out the typical bullshit and virtue signaling we’ve been seeing.
Do you consider virtue signaling to be inherently bad? Because I’m pretty sure his comment also qualifies as such.
That’s not quite virtue signaling. He isn’t proclaiming support of a good cause or expressing some distinct moral correctness, he is condemning a single perspective and common response in these posts. After all, we can infer his stance, though he makes no claim towards his beliefs, all we know is what he is against. It’s a petty distinction, though I feel it helps move it away from virtue signaling.
But no, few things are inherently bad. Our interpretation and our meaning(s) behind our words or actions make them that way. Which is why people tend to fall heavily on one side of a discussion or another.
edit: I see I am getting some downvotes. I am happy to take criticism on this take. No easier way to learn than to challenge oneself to listen and then do.
I’m trying to highlight the distinction between Biden and Trump options. There are many on social media that are proclaiming they will not vote for Biden because he is “promoting genocide”. Despite the fact that every POTUS in the last 50 years has had this exact policy (supporting and providing weaponry to Israel). Despite the fact that Trump is actively in favor of genocide and fascism. The lesser of 2 evils is also known as “the better choice.”
To what end are you trying to highlight that distinction though? What is the goal or motivation for writing that?
The lesser of two evils is also known as “the better choice”.
Unlike some paying lip service about “red lines”, my promises are real. My red line is genocide.
You can vote for your varying levels of evil, I will not vote for genocide.
Personally I think it’s probably best for Americans to vote Biden, since that will give the left some more time to organize, but I get that it’s just too much for some to swallow. I’m just glad I have actual options in my country.
It’s America, you don’t get the choice to vote against genocide.
Just like you don’t get the choice to vote against capitalism.
Democracy.
It’s America, you don’t get the choice to vote against genocide
If yout live in a swing state, maybe. Those of us in solid states can vote however we like as our votes don’t matter anyway
Great system we have
That’s not what I was asking about, what did you hope to accomplish? Are you actually trying to convince people or did you just think you’d feel better if you did?
Yeah genius, they’re out there protesting “Biden”
Because they aren’t being arrested now? Did you have some kind of news feed that didn’t show the police going after college kids with batons?
Your inability to understand the difference between much and few is embarrassing. Thanks for proving my point of lunatics asking for worse than now.
Joke’s on you, I love dick!
I can’t tell if you’re here to instigate as a right wing psyop or because you have so much electoralism brainrot that you have to make everything about an election that is still months away when there are more important things happening right now. People are dying.
JFC, pick your topic to get over outraged about. 150,000 people die a day in the world. Burning fossil fuels is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 of those deaths. https://seas.harvard.edu/news/2021/02/deaths-fossil-fuel-emissions-higher-previously-thought
Get some perspective and realize that there are more important things happening right now. People are dying. All over the world.
Are you trying to prove my point? I’m not going into threads about protesting or sabotaging dirty energy infrastructure and freaking out about how activists and the people who support them are all Biden haters and being overall inflammatory. Telling me to get some perspective is cute when it’s obvious you came to this thread focused on a single thing and ready to start shit, you didn’t come here to gain any perspective.
Not related to the article, and anyway if Biden wanted my vote he should actually try to earn it rather than bash his opponent.
lol how dense do you have to be to not realize Biden is the most progressive president in the last 50 years. Progressive enough? Of course not. But the most progressive in your lifetime. Good luck cutting your nose off to spite your face lol.
Yes he has green policies. Doesn’t change the fact that he actively insulted the Arab and Muslim-American communities and broke campaign promises. He’s completely ignored both of our communities this time around, and instead of saying any positive stuff he did it seems all his campaign attempts to our community are about how bad Trump is. So to reiterate, if he wants MY vote he will have to actually address my community at some point, otherwise he is treating the campaign as if he can win without me and thus doesn’t need my swing state vote.
Your article gives examples like he cancelled Trump’s plan to repaint Air Force One. That affects me how?
Let me save you time. He made campaign promises to the Muslim community and broke multiple ones, then stayed silent for years despite rising Islamophobia and instead focused his administration only on anti-semitism. (Both are terrible but he ignored our community despite our equal fears) He then decided to make it worse by saying he has zero trust for Palestinians, only to privately say he meant Hamas but never corrected the record. So he helped murder relatives of people in my community, and the only outreach to us is saying Trump would be worse. This is supposed to motivate a community that 80% voted for him last time? He’s not a good person and if he loses it’s his own fault.
Executive order 13769. If you’re happy with Trump being worse then by all means, vote for Trump. You deserve him.
And once again rather than show me something positive about Biden you again talk about how bad Trump was. You proved my point.
The origins of this are almost certainly rooted in right-wing operative and foreign troll farms intending to sow defeatism and wedge-drive the Democratic coalition. The people promoting this have a tendency to fall into the category of either being the ones serving the kool-aid, or drinking the kool-aid.
What’s more is that the right is trying so hard to use this moment to paint the left as being antisemitic. If Republicans didn’t paint with such broad strokes the pro-Gazan civilian protests by pointing to fringe protesters — often from outside groups — this wouldn’t have been a problem in the first place. Shame on any university staff that cave to the bullshit pressure.
Are the democrats actively supporting genocide and alienating the voters they need to win in November?
No, it is the children who are right wing troll farms.
Are the democrats actively supporting genocide
Circular reasoning fallacy / begging the question.
and alienating the voters they need to win in November?
Actually it’s a bit of a zero-sum situation, considering the number of Jewish Americans. However Biden has already shifted considerably since October 7th, obviously.
The real question you need to answer is why would Biden ever want to do this, if your premise was true. Realizing there is no good answer to that should permit you to reflect on the nature of how false your premise really is.
But I suspect you already know that.
Idk what any of this means.
It’s the principal skinner meme.
What do you think my premise is?
Idk what any of this means.
That’s all I need to know. Good day.
lol what do you think my premise is?
That speech and the crowd’s reactions gave me the chills.
Harvard, Harvard, Harvard… Isn’t that Bill Ackman’s school?
Anyone know who this dude at 11:26 in the speech and what his stance is? He looks like he’s upset at the speaker.
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You know what I love about Lemmy? If you block someone, you legitimately just don’t see their comments.
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Fuck off scammer
