Sure, more Palestinians will die
Sure, Ukrainians will die
Sure, US minorities will die
Sure, the entire world will suffer from a fascist demagogue at the head of the most powerful country in the world
But have you considered that, for a few brief moments of time,
we created a lot of value for the shareholderswe got to feel smug over the SHITLIBS who wanted to prevent fascism?Ahh, but you see, you disagreed with Stalin that one time, and therefore you were the fascist all along
It’s honestly such a shockingly privileged position it almost defies belief that anyone could actually be so dense unless they are operating in bad faith. Yes, there are several serious problems in the world, and absolutely none of them are solved by helping the US slip into fascism. Leftists in particular are supposed to hate fascists, so I can’t imagine how anyone with leftist sympathies could possibly want to see what the world looks like with an unrestrained Trunp at the helm. Again, unless they are so privileged they don’t think the consequences would affect them personally, in which case I would call any other profession of external empathy which they might bleet ad nauseum, as questionably sincere.
But what else am I gonna do with my feelings of impotent rage? Try to actually change something?
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People refusing to vote for Harris becuase of a foreign conflict they understand nothing about is peak stupidty.
“I completely understand the Palestine/Israel situation, I’ve watched multiple tiktoks about it!!!”
Not very hard to understand killing civilians, children and women is a bad thing to do and shouldn’t be supported.
Yup! Which is why helping the guy who has encouraged Israel to go harder is a bad thing.
Not very hard to understand.
Some things are worse.
There’s really not much to know nor is it a complex conflict. Just like The Troubles, it’s a colonial conflict pretending to be sectarian/religious in nature.
ETA: And it should be clear that supporting people who want to support more and greater heights of violence isn’t going to help.
Theres a genocide and she is in support of it, not really complicated or hard to fathom.
She’s supporting genocide in the same way you are supporting slavery by buying your electronics from China. When are you turning yourself in and going to prison??
Or is this line of reasoning and logic idiotic and unreasonable as you damn well know it is.
Granted, I don’t know much about the conflict. I’ve read about it on Wikipedia and it gets more and more nuanced and complex at every turn.
HOWEVER.
There are candidates who advocate for stopping the killing. This is not a high bar. This is a bar I would like to see Kamala reach.
A simple google will provide you with articles like this : Harris says bloodshed in Gaza is devastating, emphasizes support for hostage and ceasefire deals
Meanwhile Trump is calling for the extermination of Palestinians.
GTFO with this double standard both sides bullshit.
If Israel running a war causes you to not vote for the non fascist, you are simply a massive moron, nothing else.
I’m using the general “you” I don’t mean you OP
Why aren’t you asking Trump to advocate for stopping the killing?
Hm, honestly, that’s a good point. Why is it always Kamala under fire?
It’s almost like the frequent commenters in lemmy advocating against either real candidate, or more specifically, against Dems, have ulterior motive besides helping as many Gazians as they can.
Almost like their arguments are in bad faith to achieve a particular political result.
Go figure.
Or their more interested in virtue signaling than fighting for a cause that might keep the world from falling into further chaos.
I think they are just emotionally stunted twats who should let the adults make decisions.
Tbh that’s a fair point, although careful what you wish for since that could get him elected
Yeah, because that worked out so well when in 2016 when Trump got elected, the GOP got multiple Supreme Court picks, multiple federal judges were given life terms, and Roe vs Wade got struck down. Let’s see how that plays out when Ukraine falls, war breaks out in Europe, America becomes a theocratic dictatorship, and what little progress we may have seen with the environment completely falls apart and the world goes full tilt towards becoming an uninhabitable hellscape. Whatever the protest was about will be utterly meaningless.
If you want to protest, you protest AFTER you get sympathetic ears into office, not after you get the opposition elected. Trump gets in, then suddenly he’ll give you plenty to protest about, vs protesting when Harris is in office and she actually has a willingness to listen to protests and meet their demands.
If you want to protest, you protest AFTER you get sympathetic ears into office,
This is exactly why the railroad strike failed lmao.
Even UAW’s future strike plan is May 1, 2028, which is strategically a presidential election year, 5 months before the election.
If you’re that dialed in to the railroad strike this long after the fact, you are absolutely aware that Biden helped get the unions their biggest demands shortly after ending the strike.
Get your bad faith soundbite bullshit out of here.
The UAW struck after the railroad strike. And got Biden to personally come down to ask the what he could do to secure their vote. Both happened while Biden was in office. What are you even saying about why the railroad strike failed?
Oh wow a link with absolutely no context or synopsis!
“Eight of 12 unions had ratified the deal.”
I guess the synopsis can be “Unions approve of Bidens handling of railway strike.”
Okay? And by the end of the following year, the UAW had struck and used their explicit statement that they were not yet committed to endorsing a candidate for president that Biden came down to the picket lines himself to picket in support of the UAW, which helped them get landmark contract deals.
UAW says they might not endorse Biden Biden goes to the picket line UAW gets historic deals
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At no point has a protest pushed any president left, regardless of party.
That is an insane statement. The civil rights era was full of protests and change. The Vietnam War ended because of protests. There are many instances of protests pushing presidents left.
We forgot how to protest didn’t we?
Turns out when the rich and powerful set out to hamstring the ability of people to organize in the workplace, and spend a lot of time covertly policing political orgs they don’t agree with, well, people fall out of practice in being part of a community and organizing that community. If you then make every place that someone might want to build communities with other a place to extract money from, it’s real hard to build it all from scratch.
Yeah it wasn’t the protests, but the threat and follow through of violence
Sure. Those went with the protests. Protests aren’t all peaceful, hence why “peaceful protest” is a term.
Social media psyops don’t require all of the people to be puppets. You just spread some ideas around that get picked up by normal people, make some opinions get seen by the right people, etc. They are mostly not starting fires, but are simply adding a tiny bit of fuel here and there, which gets amplified by the internet.
All of the excessive online moderation actually works against it. When I started using the internet, there was a golden rule: “don’t believe anything on the internet”. Nowadays people think platforms will only show them the truth, but in reality you’re being put into a filterbubble, an echo chamber of an opinion that keeps fueling itself.
Such people who buy into this logic aren’t all that bright. Accelerationists without a comprehension of entropy or a capacity of how this might impact a whole range of other vitally-important issues like women’s rights or Ukrainian civilians among dozens over others.
Alas, we know a lot of this is fueled by foreign propaganda.
oh i’m sure the comments on this post will be real civil
They are either Russian trolls or children who have a Disney level perspective on politics, I think. They don’t want to recognize that they have very limited options or the harsh realities surrounding them.
Sheesh, all those removes and downvotes …
Not sure which depresses me more.
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because the say the other side would be worst
Are you saying otherwise?
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I’m not American you dummy.
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All the Germans I’ve met were super nice people. You should get out more.
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Lol what amazing, perfect country are you from?
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What a principled, wonderful person you are lol
And so mature for his age!
If you vote for genocide, americans will become ennemies. I will start to spit and harass yank tourists coming here lmao
With a username of @[email protected] I have a feeling you were already behaving in such a ridiculous manner.
From now on, whenever I encounter someone who says they’re not voting/voting 3rd party, I’m gunna ask if they’ve tried to reach out to their representatives trying to get them to raise some support for what they believe in. Or if they’ve tried nothing and are now just giving up. These people are literally supposed to work for us.
Believe it or not, even democratic reps are unreachable when it comes to antiwar positions. Yeah they might be “civil” to your face, they will hear you complain, but then send you a form letter in response, telling you that nothing’s going to change and that’s good actually. Feels like they could just say “fuck you” and save some steps, but I guess that’s just Democracy™ in action.
Keep bringing it up
I’ve been doing so since Iraq, even when Trump was in office they did the same shit
You might have, but most people probably haven’t. If we had more dedicated people like you this would be a lot more effective.
Aaaye, I got my letter a while back. I didn’t expect any different, but I was hoping on the 0.0005% chance that they did a life changing line of coke.
The concept of electing Trump to help Palestinians is basically the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard, but I guess some people might legitimately believe it.
It really depends on which state you live in whether or not you have the luxury of a protest vote. If you live in NY state that has a 20% lead for Harris, sure, some people can vote Jill Stein or something. But if you live in a state that actually might be close or not an obvious blowout, you can’t vote that way. You actually have to be tactical with your vote, not idealistic or symbolic.
Even if you’re in a solidly blue state, don’t fuck around with your vote.
You fuck around, and we all find out.
Back in 2000 I traded my vote for Nader in a swing state with someone in a solidly blue state. We should do that now.
Whenever I hear people pushing the, you’re either with us or against us, kind of rhetoric it makes me shake my head. It should go without saying, but obviously it doesn’t, that you don’t get to tell other people how to vote, and if you try to, they’re going to think you’re a raving lunatic. If you actually want to convince them to vote, you might want to consider making a plan for how to reasonably sway their views.
Or don’t, do whatever you want, it’s your life.
you don’t get to tell other people how to vote, and if you try to, they’re going to think you’re a raving lunatic
Umm…that’s the entire way we select leaders. The entire campaign for any office, high or low, is telling people how to vote. That’s literally democracy in action.
And it is not wrong to tell people that if they want third party candidates, the path to do so is to start with voting reform. I’m in Oregon, and we’re actually making progress on this instead of just bitching about it or running spoiler third party candidates. We have ranked-choice voting on the ballot this year. If it passes, all our state and federal elections will be decided by ranked-choice voting. We’ll actually make it viable for progressive third party candidates to run for our US House and Senate seats without just serving as a spoiler for Republicans. We’re actually doing something about the two party duopoly.
But you never hear these anti-Kamala trolls suggesting doing something that would actually make a difference. They show up every election, and their platform is ALWAYS “don’t vote for the democrat.” Doesn’t matter what election. Doesn’t matter what year. They always find some reason that you shouldn’t vote for the Democratic candidate. Their criticisms always attack the Democratic candidate and ignore the Republican.
They’re clowns and trolls. Nothing more. They bitch about the two-party duopoly, but they don’t actually want to do anything. The truth is they’re actually just Republican trolls.
Don’t you see how you come across? You think you get to tell other people what to do. But humans don’t like it when you try to tell them what to do. Instead of barking orders and calling names, why don’t you try to convince people that you have a reasonable position?
I’m not sure what kind of red herring you’ve been smoking, and I would love to try some, but these people that you think show up every election and insist that we vote against the Democrat but never say anything bad about the Republicans, who exactly are you talking about? Certainly there are some centrist pundits on TV who have ridiculous positions like that, but fortunately I’m not seeing too many comments on this platform of such an absurd nature.
LOL, what rhetoric? I’m generally of the opinion that voting is an end in itself in democracies, and wish we had mandatory/compulsory voting laws. If you live in a democracy there should be obligation to vote, and the citizens should feel confident that we are accounting for the will of the people. But with the electoral college and first past the post system, there are realities of outcomes. There are really only 2 possible outcomes of a presidential race. And if you live in a swing state your vote does a lot more to tip realize one of those 2 outcomes. So the motivation to vote should be to help achieve one of those 2 outcomes that you find more preferable. If you live in a state that is not even close, that is when you don’t have to worry much about your vote impacting the outcome and therefore have more latitude. I’ve voted 3rd party in multiple elections, but I did so in good conscious knowing I wasn’t impacting the outcome of actual leadership due to the area I vote in. In pure rational choice model, sure, your individual vote likely won’t matter (how often is a race decided by 1 vote?), but if the level of effort to vote is low, might as well do it just in case and for a sense of moral civic duty to a democracy.
Kinda like a tactical wee?
OF COURSE Trump supporters are selfish and dumb. That’s what makes them great dupes for evil forces. Trump himself knew this, as he’s famously said.
Someone else summed it up almost a century ago: “It works the same in every country.”
This post is calling out leftists who won’t vote, or won’t vote in a manner that doesn’t help trump.
Oh. Ok
This is the century America learns it’s not special and it sucks just as much as all the rest.
Or it doesn’t and it goes away.
Story as old as civilization.
Usually they live in blue states that will partially insulate them from the consequences. Or they’re young and don’t understand knock on effects yet.
b-but the… the genocide!!1!!1!11!
(/s obviously, I don’t like it either)
I genuinely don’t know what passes by their brain, but I got banned from commenting on a community on hexbear because I was saying that their little third party wouldn’t win anyways and by voting it they were helping trump, and every response was just calling me a genocide apologist because of my support for the dems.
It seems like they can’t just reason properly
It’s just very odd to me when they say both sides, but trump has openly stated he wants the military to fire live rounds at people protesting in support of Palestine.
Or that trump wants to genocide* Latinos. Or that he has said he wants the military to purge people that don’t support him.
*yes he said deport, but when the cost of such an operation starts rising then he’ll start pushing to instead kill people to lower costs. That’s how it goes every single time this rhetoric takes hold.
I’m confused. Lemmy.ml? What is happening.
.world try to not bring up lemmy.ml challenge. Difficulty: impossible.
Ah, there you are. I was confused because you weren’t being an obnoxious tit.
I love how you brought it up out of the no blue but are acting like I’m the obnoxious one lmao. World is obsessed with domains.
I got into this argument the other day. People’s arrogance and lack of common sense was disappointing.
It’s almost like the current and immediate conflict between Israel and Palestinians isn’t the singular thing that the world should have serious concern about, and that realistic solutions to longstanding international diplomacy issues are - wait for it - hard.
Everyone who doesn’t support a corporatist duopoly is lazy, dumb, and/or working for the geopolitical rival to my dominant hegemonic country!
One can only wonder why you have not convinced more people with your message and Harris is now losing.
It’s like we learned nothing from history:
Democrats constantly coming up against fascism and fumbling the bag is always someone else’s fault.
Nader, Howard Dean, ACORN, Citizen’s United, the SCOTUS, lazy uniformed voters, radical leftists and tankies, the Internet, the DSA, Russia, 16000 green party voters in a state with 4.5M ballots cast.
Two organizations are never to blame. You can’t blame the Democrats, because they are the most hyper-competent data-driven poll-optimized party to ever exist. And you can’t blame the Republicans, because they just worked harder to win based on their strong fundamentals and simply convinced more people with their very popular fascist policies.
When Dems win, they have to compromise with Republicans to achieve a bipartisan consensus. When Dems lose, they have to capitulate to the Republicans because that’s what the voters asked for.
Paid to fucking lose. I swear to God.
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Who else is looking forward to–regardless of the outcome of this election–being told throughout 2025 that it is of vital importance that we get in line with the Democratic party above all else so that we can ensure that the Republican candidate does not win the 2030 election?
