• Snapz@lemmy.world
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    21 days ago

    Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and “deep” analysis, but we’re just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man (those weren’t the loud messages as they attacked him, but Pennsylvania gramma knew those things quietly when she pulled the lever for him). It’s not satisfying, but it’s just the plain truth here. We’re closer to getting over race than we are over sex.

    Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes… But we’re also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren’t smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. “The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it.”

    Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.

    • Fredselfish@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      I remember hearing many democrats that joked how they voted for the white side of Obama. It wasn’t funny and isn’t funny now. They are not only voting against a woman but one of color.

      We are going let christian fascism take control of America because a large portion of our population is sexiest, and racist. Not to mention all those protest votes or fucker who sat on their couch rather than do the right thing.

      Now we are all fucked.

    • LappingDog@sh.itjust.works
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      21 days ago

      I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.

      • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
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        21 days ago

        This is all excuses. The fact that Trump made it all the way as the primary candidate for the GOP means that Republicans were okay with what he said and what he did.

        For a normal person, it shouldn’t even take a second to choose Harris. But this isn’t the case. Trump won the popular vote and the presidency despite all the crazy shit because a sizeable part of the citizens voted him in regardless of the reason.

        And not only that, but Republicans won the senate and well on their way to win the house.

        It is about to get real bad, and Americans have themselves to blame for that.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        20 days ago

        Institutional democrats who thought they knew what they were doing and could ignore the base of the party is to blame. Biden being top of the list. Stubborn self assured who when finally pushed to change was only willing to do it on his terms. And made a decision for everyone, again.

        One of the big stories is a Democratic party Mayor of a super Blue city being corrupt and organizing police to defend him and yet not a single member of the party has spoken out against it. Endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries.

        Status quo is far more important than listening to their base right now and hopefully it changes instead of them once again thinking they need to head further right.

        And for the love all things holy I hope the Democrats learn to stop “gaming” the election with specific counties in “blue walls” because they did advanced math that told them it was all they needed. Bare minimum should never have been the goal.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
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        20 days ago

        The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.

        You’re hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy detail… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".

        Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.

        • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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          20 days ago

          Shit dude, I’m far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn’t only because she’s a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can’t act like it wasn’t just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.

          • Snapz@lemmy.world
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            20 days ago

            It’s not “just” the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There’s nuance in understanding the distinction there.

            • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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              20 days ago

              So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she’s a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the “deciding factor” otherwise.

              • Bacano@lemmy.world
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                20 days ago

                I agree, it’s an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of ‘going back to business as usual’ and refuses to lower it’s commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.

                Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.

                • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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                  20 days ago

                  Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.

                  Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?

                  • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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                    20 days ago

                    Because first past the post voting is a form of democracy, whether or not either of us have qualms with it. What is not democratic, in any way, shape, or form, is disrupting the peaceful transfer of power, which Trump has literally done, not to mention the intended destruction of the federal system under project 2025, which based on your response, I can tell you’ve done no research into.

                    Are the parties both bad? Sure. Is one objectively and provably better for the democratic institutions of the US? Abso-fucking-lutely.

              • ObliviousEnlightenment@lemmy.world
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                20 days ago

                Yes. That is their argument. Because most men of alll races, and even most white women favored him. He got less votes than 2020, and won the popular, got a trifecta.

          • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
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            20 days ago

            None of it should factor. At all.

            The distinction between the candidates was clear enough:

            1. I will lower your taxes (for billionaires), I don’t like immigrants, and I will say all the stuff you think and the lefties made it bad to say. Also if I don’t win I’m going to jail because, for enough money I will do whatever you want (for Russia, Elon, or anyone else).

            2. I am an actual qualified candidate.

            There was no choice. It was taxes and fear and tribalism with a special sprinkle of election interference attempts around the horn.

            She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.

    • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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      21 days ago

      Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person

      She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        What does “doing better” mean to you in this day and age in that context? Polls are no longer a viable tool. They are captured, manipulated and heavily biased. They ask misleading questions and ask them of non-representative populations.

        Very big difference between “doing better” in “the race” and casting your vote on election day. Again, gramma in Pennsylvania didn’t think Kamala was doing better, or really she didn’t care what she was doing, because there was just one “key issue” that gramma would never get onboard with for Kamala… Gramma didn’t talk about that issue during “the race”, but she was thinking about it when she pulled the lever.

      • kreskin@lemmy.world
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        20 days ago

        She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though

        Was she really though? She couldnt identify a single thing she’d do differently than Biden, who has a truly remarkable and historic level of low approval.

        • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          20 days ago

          She had excitement and energy, then said she’d do nothing different than Biden. Lost a lot of energy. Got Time Waltz, more energy, and then the party told him “stop calling Vance weird” and we lost more energy.

          She had a better shot at talking trump, she just loved to shoot herself in the foot.

    • Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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      20 days ago

      Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.

        • 4grams@awful.systems
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          19 days ago

          this is why she lost, morons complaining about themselves. who fucking cares, that ad was not targetted at you, and if it was, grow some thicker fucking skin rather than voting for a fascist. I don’t give a shit if the dems personally put me on a pedastal and said I was alone to blame for the US problems; I have a functional brain and can see what the actual problems are and who has actual solutions, or at least not exclusively ways to enrich himself and get revenge.

          middle aged white dudes are the problem, I’m one of them. this morning, I was nearly assulted and arrested due to a roadrage incident. a dude in a pickup nearly sideswiped me at an intersection, I had to swerve to avoid him. At the light, he rolled down the window and started yelling at me. I rolled down mine because I honestly thought he was going to apologise but instead he started screaming insults at me because “you couldn’t let me have that one car length!!!”. I told him that after the shit this country just endured, this was how we wanted to handle things?

          This was apparently the wrong answer because he jumped out of his car and started coming at me. I am not interested in a road rage altercation so I floored it and ran the red light. I would up cutting off a cop who saw the whole thing and let me go because I did the right thing.

          this was my first interaction with a person since the election. I sincerly hope this was just tensions running high, but I can’t help but feel this nation just gave that sort of problem solving it’s full throated support.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            19 days ago

            2024 was the last time I’ll ever vote for a Democrat, especially given how I’m being spoken to for doing it.

            I’m done voting for the side that calls me their enemy no matter what I do. I’m done going out of my way for people who hate me. I’m done doing “the right thing” for people who are offended at the idea of expressing gratitude. It’s been this way my entire adult life and I’ve got a belly full.

            “Hey, you’re going to need the support of white men to win this election, so you should probably address their concerns in good faith here.” Nope. That wasn’t acceptable to the Left. The people who said that got shouted down. A couple ads like the one linked below plus others got made that were very obviously designed to conform to feminist attitudes toward men first and demand of men second. They did indeed recognize that they needed my vote, but weren’t willing to try seeing eye to eye with me at all. Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn’t a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they’re going to blame me for it, just like they’ve blamed me for everything their entire lives.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            20 days ago

            Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.

            I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.

            Blame me as much as you want, you’re going to anyway. I’m the bad guy even when voting your way so what’sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.

            • Snapz@lemmy.world
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              19 days ago

              “Look what you made me do!” just dripping…

              Maybe work on having some established personal principles and some backbone? Maybe less wielding your vote as a little golden cudgel over people’s heads? Why the fuck does your vote for a complex full administration of people including court appointees that will serve long terms as they all pursue at least four years worth of basic, roll up the sleeves and work day to day policy, all hinge on one targeted ad that hurts your feefees?

              And studies have shown that people who casually drop the word “misandrist” have videos from matt walsh and nick fuentes in their YouTube watch history arguing that the age of consent is too high.

              • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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                19 days ago

                See what I mean?

                I’m going to get screamed at like I’m the bad guy ANYWAY. There is no winning to be done here. I’m not voting for a party that is pro woman ever again. I’m done voting against my own interests for people who hate me. It’s all I’ve done my entire adult life. No more.

                • Snapz@lemmy.world
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                  19 days ago

                  “I’m done voting against my own interests” [votes republican]

                  Showing your ass there, bud.

                  And you haven’t had an “entire adult life”. Judging by the way you speak, you’re either a 14 year old boy or you’re not even in America.

                  “I was totally gonna not be a piece of shit, too. You blew it everyone! You could have had ME on your side.”

      • Katana314@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        “Imagined” is perhaps the right word considering he wanted to raise taxes for low income people, and lower taxes for rich people.

        • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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          20 days ago

          Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.

          But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.

          It’s not impossible to see how the perceptions got to where they are.

          • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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            20 days ago

            Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.

            But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.

            Why does the love of the working class have to be fake?!?!?!?

            Holy fucking hell, democrats have lost their mind.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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      21 days ago

      Setting aside whether she would’ve won had she been a white man, she could’ve made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.

    • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
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      21 days ago

      While this is a large part of it, a significant thing I think is that you get a lot more enthusiasm voting for something than against something. If she was campaigning for things I didn’t hear it above the constant “orange shit is an orange shit”.

      A number of terrorist bomb threats to predominantly democratic polling locations in swing states and other fuckery may have also played a role.

          • ObliviousEnlightenment@lemmy.world
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            20 days ago

            Cool, were im the minority, and if libs and progressives cant learn to swallow down each others candidates, the american left in general is cooked

            • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
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              20 days ago

              False choice dilemma.

              Democrats need to swallow their pride and arrogance and admit to themselves that they shouldn’t be going solo against the republicans.

              Do away with First Past The Post voting in blue states and let more players onto the field. This fight is bigger then the democratic party.

              • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
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                20 days ago

                Well start figuring out how to get it as a ballot measure in your state now then do what’s left of our democracy a favor, swallow your pettiness and vote for the lesser evil until you get RCV in your area.

                Greens and other parties are only doing favors for the facists as things stand right now.

    • OpenStars@piefed.social
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      21 days ago

      I get more the sense that people don’t care about her so much - or him either for that matter - so much as how things in general just “feel wrong”. I’m no expert but the news media having been bought out seems a likely culprit. Jon Stewart tried to warn us but we would not listen. He did his part, but if people don’t value things, they tend to fall - or in this case be taken - apart.

    • quink@lemmy.ml
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      21 days ago

      Should have stuck with the British Monarchy, powerless as it comes. A woman as head of state for 70 years and even better, no elections for any president during any of time.

    • 4grams@awful.systems
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      19 days ago

      Bingo. The party of stupid, obstinant assholes was elected by the stupid, obstinant asshole electorate.

    • wlodi@szmer.info
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      21 days ago

      Totally agree. After all the progress the US is still not ready to accept anyone else than white men at the top.

      • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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        21 days ago

        You people are about to overdose on copium. This is a lazy view. “she lost because of race and sex”. You need to really ask people why she couldn’t secure their vote.

        • NevermindNoMind@lemmy.world
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          20 days ago

          The “Run Up” podcast had an episode following the Working Families Party while they were out knocking on doors for Harris in a poor projects type neighborhood. The first lady they talk to is hesitant to vote for Harris because she’s a prosecutor who jailed black men for weed. While they are talking and the canvasser is trying to convince her, her neighbor jumps in and he says something to the effect of “Harris is a woman and world leaders won’t respect her and get us in a lot of trouble”.

          Is sexism/racism the reason Harris lost? No, I personally at this point think it has more to do with the Democratic party’s inability to offer solutions for working families - Dems are the center right party representing corporate interests and the elite while paying lip service to actual regular people, MAGA is viewed as the party of the common man, as bullshit as that is it’s what voters feel. I personally think the only way forward is an actual progressive platform which addresses fundamental economic unfairness in the system, and candidates who can connect to and explain that platform to regular folk of all races and demographics.

          But you can’t deny that sexism/racism didn’t play a significant role in the loss.

          • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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            20 days ago

            Hearing a sexist comment once is not evidence of wide spread sexism. You’re allowing your personal views to color your objective view. Show me dozens of videos of someone saying they won’t vote for Harris because of her sex or race and I might think otherwise. Isolated incidents don’t mean much.

        • Snapz@lemmy.world
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          19 days ago

          I used to respond to people like you carefully and in some depth, with the hope that others who needed the words could read mine and feel indirectly supported.

          I’m not doing that today. My original statement stands, your statement is the way you are personally trying to accept the guilt, shame or disappointment in this reality, I’ll leave it at that.

          • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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            20 days ago

            “my view is right because it’s mine. Yours is wrong because it’s not mine”

            No guilt, disappointment, or shame in my game. My life is pretty great.

            • Snapz@lemmy.world
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              20 days ago

              Actually says a lot about you if you can say that in this moment. Thanks for that clarity.

              • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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                20 days ago

                Yes, it says I’m a normal person living a normal life and I don’t live my life perpetually online and have not become a radical. Cheers mate.

    • Crampon@lemmy.world
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      20 days ago

      Dems had the house for 12 years the past 16. Nothing really changed.

      People have claimed Harris wasn’t capable of leading. They got their undeserved confirmation when she turned out to be a no show for 14 hours yesterday.

      You construct a Strawman. If the Dems pulled a capable and charismatic woman out of the top hat she would be able to win.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
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        19 days ago

        “People have been saying…” - oh fuck you, dude.

        First sentence is just beyond stupid. Ignores so many nuanced changes, recovery of the economy from COVID not the least of it and just oblivious to the overall balance of power along the way with an unreasonable, obstructionist gop opposing progress at every turn, even to spite themselves on things like the border bill and the infrastructure bill more recently.

        “Enough” is never done, but that’s a problem with overall politics, mixed with subjective perception. But your ignorant oversimplification here just has no place in a conversation among adults. Maybe go play with the dirt outside or go point at the pictures in that puffy book you love about firetrucks while you shit yourself?

        Your statement is just hollow. It’s defiantly ignorant, smug, selfish, cowardly and just overall, you seem to (without further qualification) fucking suck. To have failed you this poorly, can also confidently assume that your family is just generations of disappointment in front of and behind you. You’re useless lumps, impotently screaming at the sun… At least that’s what “People have been saying…”

        • Crampon@lemmy.world
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          19 days ago

          Why did you put in quotation marks to your sentence?

          You’re just salty you got red pilled.

      • OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip
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        19 days ago

        People handed the election on a silver platter to a guy who refused to concede in 2020, and shills are on here saying that Harris is incapable of leading because she took a while to concede?

        And I bet those same people complain that Gore conceeded too soon in 2000.

        What’s this about the Dems having control of the house? Another person that needs a civics lesson? It’s like the cultists saying that “Kamala had 4 years to fix these problems” because they don’t know how our government works.

        The Dems have had control of the government for exactly 2 years since 1980. I don’t understand how anyone can blame the Dems for the state our country is in.

        The silver lining in all this is that now that Republicans have complete control, it will be impossible for shills and cultists to blame the Dems.