Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and “deep” analysis, but we’re just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man (those weren’t the loud messages as they attacked him, but Pennsylvania gramma knew those things quietly when she pulled the lever for him). It’s not satisfying, but it’s just the plain truth here. We’re closer to getting over race than we are over sex.
Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes… But we’re also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren’t smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. “The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it.”
Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.
I remember hearing many democrats that joked how they voted for the white side of Obama. It wasn’t funny and isn’t funny now. They are not only voting against a woman but one of color.
We are going let christian fascism take control of America because a large portion of our population is sexiest, and racist. Not to mention all those protest votes or fucker who sat on their couch rather than do the right thing.
Now we are all fucked.
This reads like straight out of disco elysium. Great choice of words
Thanks, I still need to play it. Maybe a good distraction for a bit to regroup and prepare for a rough road ahead.
It’s definitely worth your time. It’ll likely make you laugh occasionally, too.
Are you gonna replay as sad cop lol
I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.
This is all excuses. The fact that Trump made it all the way as the primary candidate for the GOP means that Republicans were okay with what he said and what he did.
For a normal person, it shouldn’t even take a second to choose Harris. But this isn’t the case. Trump won the popular vote and the presidency despite all the crazy shit because a sizeable part of the citizens voted him in regardless of the reason.
And not only that, but Republicans won the senate and well on their way to win the house.
It is about to get real bad, and Americans have themselves to blame for that.
Institutional democrats who thought they knew what they were doing and could ignore the base of the party is to blame. Biden being top of the list. Stubborn self assured who when finally pushed to change was only willing to do it on his terms. And made a decision for everyone, again.
One of the big stories is a Democratic party Mayor of a super Blue city being corrupt and organizing police to defend him and yet not a single member of the party has spoken out against it. Endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries.
Status quo is far more important than listening to their base right now and hopefully it changes instead of them once again thinking they need to head further right.
And for the love all things holy I hope the Democrats learn to stop “gaming” the election with specific counties in “blue walls” because they did advanced math that told them it was all they needed. Bare minimum should never have been the goal.
100%
The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
You’re hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy detail… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.
Shit dude, I’m far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn’t only because she’s a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can’t act like it wasn’t just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.
It’s not “just” the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There’s nuance in understanding the distinction there.
So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she’s a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the “deciding factor” otherwise.
I agree, it’s an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of ‘going back to business as usual’ and refuses to lower it’s commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.
Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?
Yes. That is their argument. Because most men of alll races, and even most white women favored him. He got less votes than 2020, and won the popular, got a trifecta.
None of it should factor. At all.
The distinction between the candidates was clear enough:
-
I will lower your taxes (for billionaires), I don’t like immigrants, and I will say all the stuff you think and the lefties made it bad to say. Also if I don’t win I’m going to jail because, for enough money I will do whatever you want (for Russia, Elon, or anyone else).
-
I am an actual qualified candidate.
There was no choice. It was taxes and fear and tribalism with a special sprinkle of election interference attempts around the horn.
She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.
-
Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person
She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though
Until she woke up one day and thought she was Republican.
The true lesson is the one the Democrats will never, ever learn.
So many republican endorsements. And each one was so very publicly celebrated. Ugh.
What does “doing better” mean to you in this day and age in that context? Polls are no longer a viable tool. They are captured, manipulated and heavily biased. They ask misleading questions and ask them of non-representative populations.
Very big difference between “doing better” in “the race” and casting your vote on election day. Again, gramma in Pennsylvania didn’t think Kamala was doing better, or really she didn’t care what she was doing, because there was just one “key issue” that gramma would never get onboard with for Kamala… Gramma didn’t talk about that issue during “the race”, but she was thinking about it when she pulled the lever.
Polls, obviously.
She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though
Was she really though? She couldnt identify a single thing she’d do differently than Biden, who has a truly remarkable and historic level of low approval.
She had excitement and energy, then said she’d do nothing different than Biden. Lost a lot of energy. Got Time Waltz, more energy, and then the party told him “stop calling Vance weird” and we lost more energy.
She had a better shot at talking trump, she just loved to shoot herself in the foot.
According to the polls she was. Not sure how’d else you’d measure it, really.
Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.
Barack Obama also never released a campaign ad that said “Hey white dudes, we only think some of you suck.”
You mind linking me to that ad?
Idk, as a white guy, that’s more cringe than offensive. Maybe that’s because I live in the South and can pass for a redneck, but I hear some vile shit from those other white guys fairly often.
Offensive isn’t quite the word for it.
The part that bothers me is that the DNC couldn’t put together genuine sounding messaging to men when American democracy itself hung in the balance. Dooming my nation because they absolutely couldn’t bring themselves to drop the identity politics is a transgression I don’t think I can ever forgive.
“hey white dudes! …no not you…the other white dudes.”
this is why she lost, morons complaining about themselves. who fucking cares, that ad was not targetted at you, and if it was, grow some thicker fucking skin rather than voting for a fascist. I don’t give a shit if the dems personally put me on a pedastal and said I was alone to blame for the US problems; I have a functional brain and can see what the actual problems are and who has actual solutions, or at least not exclusively ways to enrich himself and get revenge.
middle aged white dudes are the problem, I’m one of them. this morning, I was nearly assulted and arrested due to a roadrage incident. a dude in a pickup nearly sideswiped me at an intersection, I had to swerve to avoid him. At the light, he rolled down the window and started yelling at me. I rolled down mine because I honestly thought he was going to apologise but instead he started screaming insults at me because “you couldn’t let me have that one car length!!!”. I told him that after the shit this country just endured, this was how we wanted to handle things?
This was apparently the wrong answer because he jumped out of his car and started coming at me. I am not interested in a road rage altercation so I floored it and ran the red light. I would up cutting off a cop who saw the whole thing and let me go because I did the right thing.
this was my first interaction with a person since the election. I sincerly hope this was just tensions running high, but I can’t help but feel this nation just gave that sort of problem solving it’s full throated support.
2024 was the last time I’ll ever vote for a Democrat, especially given how I’m being spoken to for doing it.
I’m done voting for the side that calls me their enemy no matter what I do. I’m done going out of my way for people who hate me. I’m done doing “the right thing” for people who are offended at the idea of expressing gratitude. It’s been this way my entire adult life and I’ve got a belly full.
“Hey, you’re going to need the support of white men to win this election, so you should probably address their concerns in good faith here.” Nope. That wasn’t acceptable to the Left. The people who said that got shouted down. A couple ads like the one linked below plus others got made that were very obviously designed to conform to feminist attitudes toward men first and demand of men second. They did indeed recognize that they needed my vote, but weren’t willing to try seeing eye to eye with me at all. Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn’t a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they’re going to blame me for it, just like they’ve blamed me for everything their entire lives.
what a fucking snowflake.
Piss into the wind some more there, bud.
you sound just like the motherfucker who tried to jump me this AM.
speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it
Don’t like those ads? Should’ve stopped proving them right. We will go to the grave blaming you and your ilk now
We will go to the grave blaming you and your ilk now
Weird hill to die on
I’m envisioning a pit, rather than a hill? Probably full of quicklime?
Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.
I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.
Blame me as much as you want, you’re going to anyway. I’m the bad guy even when voting your way so what’sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.
I take it you dont much care WHY misandey is on the rise
Not even a little.
“Look what you made me do!” just dripping…
Maybe work on having some established personal principles and some backbone? Maybe less wielding your vote as a little golden cudgel over people’s heads? Why the fuck does your vote for a complex full administration of people including court appointees that will serve long terms as they all pursue at least four years worth of basic, roll up the sleeves and work day to day policy, all hinge on one targeted ad that hurts your feefees?
And studies have shown that people who casually drop the word “misandrist” have videos from matt walsh and nick fuentes in their YouTube watch history arguing that the age of consent is too high.
See what I mean?
I’m going to get screamed at like I’m the bad guy ANYWAY. There is no winning to be done here. I’m not voting for a party that is pro woman ever again. I’m done voting against my own interests for people who hate me. It’s all I’ve done my entire adult life. No more.
“I’m done voting against my own interests” [votes republican]
Showing your ass there, bud.
And you haven’t had an “entire adult life”. Judging by the way you speak, you’re either a 14 year old boy or you’re not even in America.
“I was totally gonna not be a piece of shit, too. You blew it everyone! You could have had ME on your side.”
I don’t think it’s just the fact that she’s a black/Asian woman.
I saw this on BBC News which is probably correct:
“Imagined” is perhaps the right word considering he wanted to raise taxes for low income people, and lower taxes for rich people.
Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.
But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.
It’s not impossible to see how the perceptions got to where they are.
Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.
But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.
Why does the love of the working class have to be fake?!?!?!?
Holy fucking hell, democrats have lost their mind.
Frankly, that just shows hollywood is overhated and voters are stupid
Setting aside whether she would’ve won had she been a white man, she could’ve made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.
And you’re an expert on ignoring failure
Maybe if you insult people they will be more open to your perspective?
I’m not bothering to comb back through shit I said a week ago but I just assume you’re another defender of voter apathy so, cool
I’m not bothering to comb back through shit I said a week ago
And yet here you are a week later with a comb in hand.
When will you begin to make sense?
You responded to me. Bye
I get more the sense that people don’t care about her so much - or him either for that matter - so much as how things in general just “feel wrong”. I’m no expert but the news media having been bought out seems a likely culprit. Jon Stewart tried to warn us but we would not listen. He did his part, but if people don’t value things, they tend to fall - or in this case be taken - apart.
While this is a large part of it, a significant thing I think is that you get a lot more enthusiasm voting for something than against something. If she was campaigning for things I didn’t hear it above the constant “orange shit is an orange shit”.
A number of terrorist bomb threats to predominantly democratic polling locations in swing states and other fuckery may have also played a role.
Maybe care about things. Voting against him should’ve been enough to elect a ham sandwhich
Yeah, well, I did my part. ml and hexbear certainly didn’t.
Cool, were im the minority, and if libs and progressives cant learn to swallow down each others candidates, the american left in general is cooked
False choice dilemma.
Democrats need to swallow their pride and arrogance and admit to themselves that they shouldn’t be going solo against the republicans.
Do away with First Past The Post voting in blue states and let more players onto the field. This fight is bigger then the democratic party.
Well start figuring out how to get it as a ballot measure in your state now then do what’s left of our democracy a favor, swallow your pettiness and vote for the lesser evil until you get RCV in your area.
Greens and other parties are only doing favors for the facists as things stand right now.
libs swallow even once challenge
Should have stuck with the British Monarchy, powerless as it comes. A woman as head of state for 70 years and even better, no elections for any president during any of time.
Bingo. The party of stupid, obstinant assholes was elected by the stupid, obstinant asshole electorate.
Totally agree. After all the progress the US is still not ready to accept anyone else than white men at the top.
You people are about to overdose on copium. This is a lazy view. “she lost because of race and sex”. You need to really ask people why she couldn’t secure their vote.
The “Run Up” podcast had an episode following the Working Families Party while they were out knocking on doors for Harris in a poor projects type neighborhood. The first lady they talk to is hesitant to vote for Harris because she’s a prosecutor who jailed black men for weed. While they are talking and the canvasser is trying to convince her, her neighbor jumps in and he says something to the effect of “Harris is a woman and world leaders won’t respect her and get us in a lot of trouble”.
Is sexism/racism the reason Harris lost? No, I personally at this point think it has more to do with the Democratic party’s inability to offer solutions for working families - Dems are the center right party representing corporate interests and the elite while paying lip service to actual regular people, MAGA is viewed as the party of the common man, as bullshit as that is it’s what voters feel. I personally think the only way forward is an actual progressive platform which addresses fundamental economic unfairness in the system, and candidates who can connect to and explain that platform to regular folk of all races and demographics.
But you can’t deny that sexism/racism didn’t play a significant role in the loss.
Hearing a sexist comment once is not evidence of wide spread sexism. You’re allowing your personal views to color your objective view. Show me dozens of videos of someone saying they won’t vote for Harris because of her sex or race and I might think otherwise. Isolated incidents don’t mean much.
I think blue conservatives want everyone to be thinking it’s about sex or race because that would pin the blame on the voters, rather then the poltical party itself.
You just completely miss the point.
You just completely miss the point in my opinion.
Internalized means no showy uppy on video, ding dong
I used to respond to people like you carefully and in some depth, with the hope that others who needed the words could read mine and feel indirectly supported.
I’m not doing that today. My original statement stands, your statement is the way you are personally trying to accept the guilt, shame or disappointment in this reality, I’ll leave it at that.
“my view is right because it’s mine. Yours is wrong because it’s not mine”
No guilt, disappointment, or shame in my game. My life is pretty great.
Actually says a lot about you if you can say that in this moment. Thanks for that clarity.
Yes, it says I’m a normal person living a normal life and I don’t live my life perpetually online and have not become a radical. Cheers mate.
Slowly but surely I’m coming to terms with our modern reality
Dems had the house for 12 years the past 16. Nothing really changed.
People have claimed Harris wasn’t capable of leading. They got their undeserved confirmation when she turned out to be a no show for 14 hours yesterday.
You construct a Strawman. If the Dems pulled a capable and charismatic woman out of the top hat she would be able to win.
“People have been saying…” - oh fuck you, dude.
First sentence is just beyond stupid. Ignores so many nuanced changes, recovery of the economy from COVID not the least of it and just oblivious to the overall balance of power along the way with an unreasonable, obstructionist gop opposing progress at every turn, even to spite themselves on things like the border bill and the infrastructure bill more recently.
“Enough” is never done, but that’s a problem with overall politics, mixed with subjective perception. But your ignorant oversimplification here just has no place in a conversation among adults. Maybe go play with the dirt outside or go point at the pictures in that puffy book you love about firetrucks while you shit yourself?
Your statement is just hollow. It’s defiantly ignorant, smug, selfish, cowardly and just overall, you seem to (without further qualification) fucking suck. To have failed you this poorly, can also confidently assume that your family is just generations of disappointment in front of and behind you. You’re useless lumps, impotently screaming at the sun… At least that’s what “People have been saying…”
Why did you put in quotation marks to your sentence?
You’re just salty you got red pilled.
People handed the election on a silver platter to a guy who refused to concede in 2020, and shills are on here saying that Harris is incapable of leading because she took a while to concede?
And I bet those same people complain that Gore conceeded too soon in 2000.
What’s this about the Dems having control of the house? Another person that needs a civics lesson? It’s like the cultists saying that “Kamala had 4 years to fix these problems” because they don’t know how our government works.
The Dems have had control of the government for exactly 2 years since 1980. I don’t understand how anyone can blame the Dems for the state our country is in.
The silver lining in all this is that now that Republicans have complete control, it will be impossible for shills and cultists to blame the Dems.
Wisconsin, US here. My county went 70% for Trump this time. That’s versus ~48% in 2016. The problem isn’t democracy. The problem is the people. Pissed as hell for all the wrong reasons at all the wrong people. Unable to see reality, expecting that the person in charge could make it a utopia with the flick of a switch. The average American is delusional and irreparably stupid.
We constantly joke that it’s Idiocracy, but the truth is…
Thank you for saying it. The voter is the fucking problem. Anyone with half a brain realizes this. Gaza, egg prices, and the candidate not having a dick was enough to the traitor rapist felon to get a trifecta. That’s not a campaign problem. Maybe Harris didn’t run a perfect campaign, but that’s clearly not the issue here
I’m not American. Maybe my opinion also comes from a place of not understanding how government works in the US. But in 2020, Biden won the Presidency and the Democrats had control of the House and the Senate. Yet, they had a harder time of reversing Trump’s policies than he had pushing them through. Let alone not even trying to enact progressive policies.
As an outside observer, maybe that’s why people have lost faith in the Democratic party.
Because you have to consider all the court appointments he made, including the supreme court that he stacked. If the Biden admin did any more, itd just get struck down. The court can basically nullify any law or executive order they want without repercussion. Im frankly shocked he got away with as much as he did
Orange asshole is definitely going to get more of those court appointments over the next 4 years. And they will all pretty much be there for the rest of our lives. Any sort of sense of democracy that the US had was probably dealt a death blow today.
Why can’t Biden do his own supreme court appointments?
He could, but traditionally the court is suppoaed to have seven Justices. He respects that did not want to be seen as trying to stack it. Unfortunately Republicans have no intention of giving the slightest fuck, were already stacking the court, and will likely continue doing so. If you ask me, I think Biden shouldve stacked it
This. Was crazy to see everyone turn on the DNC and Harris the moment it was over like we are just unable to come to terms with the fact that we’re surrounded by garbage and morons and there’s no way around it
The results aren’t showing that though. They are showing a large amount of Democrat voters just stayed on the couch. Trump didn’t get more votes than 2020, all that was needed was an energized democratic base.
Sorry but staying on the couch makes you fall under the garbage and/or moron category imo
Maybe dont genocide next time. Genociders, their financiers, and those who enable them are garbage.
Okay so best case scenario now you have an incompetent, ineffectual rapist and felon now who doesn’t care about genocide in this country let alone another, and will let it drag on. Worst case you have an incompetent rapist and felon who will write a blank check to Netanyahu to finish the genocide quickly with whatever means necessary. His supporters and the people who sat back will share culpability in whichever happens. So we definitely agree on your last sentence
will write a blank check to Netanyahu to finish the genocide quickly with whatever means necessary.
This is literally happening as we speak now that the election is over. How many Gazans will be left for Trump to genocide? How many months early will Israel complete their ethnic cleansing due to Trump? Is there a rate that can occur faster than the billions of dollars we are currently surprising?
I voted for your stupid fucking genocide candidate so fuck off.
I mean I’m guessing tens of thousands? Probably several months early when aid to Gaza goes to zero? So yes, I think yes there is a faster rate. Thanks for doing your part though, sincerely. I’m actually a Canadian living in the US so I’m indeed making plans to fuck off.
Both sides.
Couch-bound voting was easily possible and effortless. They CHOSE to sit it out.
Trump still got 72 million votes and counting this time. That’s with another four years of Trump scandals, revelations, criminal charges, insurrections, mental declines, and on-video insane statements.
The people who stayed home, or the politicians who failed to motivate them, sure they carry some blame. They could have helped. But they are not the base. The ones who followed Trump from being the outsider who is fun because he’s an asshole/racist like them, to the corrupt traitorous dictator-to-be who they’d like to watch hurt people. Blame them much more.
The steady level of Trump support unfortunately supports the fear that our culture is just garbage. We’re surrounded by it. There are plenty of proud assholes, sure. But so many people will legitimately be pleasant to everybody they meet and seem to function in society, but either believe horrible things or have a thick shell of indoctrination and ignorance around their brain.
The people that supported trump were always going to support him and be energized to vote. That’s a big part of why focusing on his lies was such a waste of time, it wasn’t going to change any minds. Winning elections is about motivating your base, undecided voters are a wash and opposing voters aren’t likely to massively shift.
Do you think they stayed on the couch cause kamala didn’t give them the metaphorical coffee they needed or did they stay on the couch because they knew even if they voted for her and she won she wouldn’t fix the issues this country faces? The corporate donors will not let any two party pawns address their control or runaway wealth. Voting isn’t going to solve our issues now with trump. America is stuck waiting for things to get bad enough that people rise up or doomed to collapse.
Does it really matter between those two? End of the day, Trump motivated his base and Harris didn’t.
Yeah uh, I really really hate to say it, but… democracy worked this time. The voice of the people is “Trump please”. Democracy just means you get what most people want, not what the best option is.
I’m pretty sure the majority of people mourning the loss of democracy aren’t saying it because they feel the democratic process was broken this election, rather they say it because Dump vowed to dismantle democracy and serve as a dictator.
Eh… I’m sure that’s the case for some people, but a lot of left and right wing people seem to think democracy=my ideas winning. Those people seem to think Trump winning is not reflective of the (very shitty) will of the people.
I didn’t hear that when Bush was elected, either one.
It’s funny that you can now actually do a Pro/Con list about the Idiocracy universe over our own:
Pros:
- Lots of diversity
- Black president
- President listens to advisors
- Sex work legal
- Not crippled by religiosity
- Puts smart people in positions of power and trust
Cons:
- Everyone’s stupid
- No real due process
- Public executions
- Misogyny, homophobia, and ableism are rampant
Same:
- Police are knuckle-dragging morons who will murder you
- President has too much power
- Costco
At least we’ll always have Costco that really lifted my spirits 👍
Welcome to Costco, I love you.
I can’t tell you how much faith I’ve lost in the average person in America, especially compared to how… ok, I guess, the last election went and how tight, or possibly over this one is.
I can’t fathom how fucking stupid anyone would have to be to elect this orange piece of shit that has been upping the dangerous rhetoric constantly. America is broken and it isn’t worth fixing, especially not for the morons that somehow get him elected again. I just hope that I can get to a point in my career that I can move elsewhere, maybe Ireland or New Zealand or something, fuck.
For real. The rest of the world needs to get their shit together and cripple the US. Cease all trades immediately, end all alliances with the US. The US has the largest military in the world, and now the facists have the reins entirely. They have the oval office, the have the house, they have the Senate and they have the supreme court. The entire world is going to suffer because of this election.
US politics have gone to dangerous direction for decades. Orange freak is only a symptom. US is gonna become Russia level cleptocracy and when climate crysis hits fully, world will be more separated and chaotic than ever.
Yeah, this recent election shows how far gone my country really is. But unfortunately it’s also the golden opportunity facists have been working towards for a long time.
There may not be any need for that.
The United States, China, etc. all have trade policies that are fundamentally unsustainable and result in persistent trade imbalances.
This causes all sorts of poor economic outcomes for large sectors of those countries. For example, an anaemic household sector in China and over investments in housing, huge private and public sector deficits in the United States, etc.
In the free market world of Adam Smith and comparative advantage, persistent trade imbalances should not exist.
Over the medium to long term, imports are meant to pay for exports.
If there are persistent trade imbalances, it means there is persistent under consumption (China) or over consumption (United States).
Note: This is not just limited to these countries.
At some point, there is going to be an economic crisis because it can’t continue forever.
God you blue conservatives are ridiculous.
You’d rather support the death of America over doing away with the two party system.
Bud id fucking love to get rid of the two party system. Personally I’ve been talking about it for fucking years. but that’s not gonna fucking happen.
Go fuck yourself with this blue conservative bullshit.
Go ahead and wait for the U.S. to implement a viable system. I’d bet it’ll be longer than our lifetimes before that even happens. And that’s ignoring what is probably the desire of keeping the status duo of a broken two party system like this.
Cool story, bro. How do you propose to do that? You got a magic wand? How many of those ballot initiatives failed this time around?
Remember when the US-Government dropped fucking poison Gas von striking Miners?
Maybe this whole US-Idea was not that great to begin with.
Remember when they bombed a neighborhood in Philadelphia?
Holy fuck.
Remember when they burned children alive because their parents may or may not have modified some firearms.
When you figure out that the United States was established by wealthy white males who owned slaves, had a revolution due to “no taxation without representation” but then purposefully ignored to repent the 99% until major reforms over the years, it makes sense.
The first set presidential elections were only voted by a handful of Americans. Not the women. Not the slaves. Not the natives who were here first. The landowning white men.
When we claimed England is a tyranny but abolished slavery and gave universal aufferage before we did, I think we lost that argument. America was built by out of touch white men, and it has always been ran by out of touch white men.
Rebecca Latimer Felton, the first woman elected to the US House, “spoke vigorously in favor of lynching African Americans, under the pretense of protecting the sexual purity of European-American women.”
I’m not above being petty, so lemme just say she looks exactly as I expected.
Bang on. She really does.
Like a fucking old troll filled with nothing except for hate?
His last name is Trump! Actually I don’t know what they used to call him before but this is his last one hopefully.
This implies that Trump is a Lich. That is a terrifying thought.
That could be, if I only knew what a lich was. But if it’s a terrifying thing then we’re in the correct direction for the description of what this turd in a bag is all about.
Not to mention that the civil war was lost through the presidential election of 1876 even though it was won in battle before that. That election was so corrupt that the Union conceded a lot to get their president, including removing Federal forces from the South on the promise that the South would protect Federal rights of minorities, blacks, etc. (among other things) The North pulled out and the south reneged without consequence (the KKK was the strong arm then) until the Civil Rights act in the 60s. That’s only roughly 60 years ago. Most of the institutional segregation from before then is still firmly in place.
It’s amazing the stories that Americans tell themselves about the American Revolution. They pretend that the “founding fathers” were heroic idealists standing up for honorable values against an evil despotic regime. The truth is much more complicated.
A major goal of the 7 Years War was about controlling the colonies in the Americas. Had the French won those wars, the modern people of North America would probably speak French. Look at how many US places still have French names, and especially are named after the French king: Louisiana, Louisville, St. Louis, Mobile, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Detroit, Lafayette, Arkansas, Illinois, Calumet, Decatur, Boise, Montpelier, etc. But, the French lost the war, so the English took over all that territory. Fighting that war was incredibly expensive, but it was worth it for the English because they now controlled a whole new continent with all its resources. To pay for that war, they levied taxes. The English colonists in the US, who were largely the beneficiaries of that part of the war, decided they didn’t want to pay those taxes, so they rebelled. They got the benefit of a continent won for them by English armies, but without having to pay the bill for that fight. Now, again, it’s complicated. The English armies were integrated with the colonial armies. George Washington was initially an officer in the British army (and was part of starting the French and Indian wars, which became the 7-years-war). The US colonists were part of the force that fought against the French and their native allies.
Anyhow, it was complicated. But, the end result was that after a war that took place both in Europe and in the Americas, the British crown had a huge debt. I have no idea what proportion of that debt was due to the part of the war fought in Europe vs. the part of the war fought in the Americas, but overall there was a big debt and the English crown tried to tax whoever they could to pay for it.
Was the English king a tyrant? Sure. Did the Americans have fair representation in the English parliament? Probably not. But, their main reason for rebelling was the same one that is nearly always the cause of rebellions: the rebels are in an area that’s wealthy for some reason, and they don’t want to have to share that wealth with the rest of the country / empire. In fact, it was suspected that the colonists chose not to send representatives to the colonial assembly partially because they knew that if they did that it would undermine their “without representation” argument, and the real issue was that they simply didn’t want to pay taxes.
As for the English system being tyrannical, the reality is that it has been a very slow, gradual change from an absolute monarchy to a ceremonial one. The English crown is significantly less wealthy than Elon Musk, and arguably has a lot less influence on British politics than Musk does on American politics.
By the letter of the laws, the British system is still more classist and controlled by money than the American system. But, is that true if you look at the actual real way that power is used? It doesn’t seem like it to me.
I particularly enjoy the bit about how after the French helped us win our revolution and took some revolution home in a doggy bag. We reneged on our debt claiming “Our deal was with the king.”
stonks
Also say goodbye to internet freedom of speech, if even a small portion of Project 2025 comes into play. Anti-pornography activism sounds nice on paper, until you realize everyone has a different definition of pornography, and the people that want to ban porn the most have a rather interesting take on what constitutes as porn and what doesn’t…
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Some people define porn as the stuff corporations do, except they will side with anyone that promises a blanket ban on stuff.
It absolutely does not sound nice on paper.
“Anti-pornography” specifically means “anti-LGBT” to them.
They will extend it to mean anything outside of what their version of Christianity allows, which will include a lot of straight people
Anti-pornography activism sounds nice on paper
I am absolutely ashamed I’m forced to vote along side you by First Past the Post voting. Disgusting.
Clownocracy
FWIW most clowns are hard-working, skilled individuals who bring joy to people’s lives.
Are you a clown?
I know you’re probably joking buttttt, I know a ton and can say it’s a mixed bag … Many clowns are like Santa’s and magicians…they’re not the most forward thinking and take themselves waaaay too seriously. Most new age and haunt clowns are cool peeps. It’s the old school “clowning art” gate keepers and the evangelical clowns that tend to be insufferable. Heavy mean girl vibes.
I was actually wondering because i dont know much about clowns, it’s interesting, iv heared only about some Gracy or Gacy clown but forgot what was the thing about him
Today we’re all clowns.
Clown country
Yeah, a two party system with two right wings only.
That wouldn’t work.
Anybody got that American political plane meme handy?
Funny and true. I like it.
Well, it is nearly dead now.
The majority voted for the candidate I don’t like. That means democracy is broken.
Trump said the exact same thing in 2020 and was rightly condemned for it. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Get used to it.
He literally said you won’t need to vote again. Fucking brain-dead take there.
Threatening to use the armed forces against your political opponents is generally considered not a great sign for a democracy as well.
If only we had any historical examples from, say, the past century, showing that the way to stop fascism is NOT by voting the socialdemocrats/liberals into power…
Sorry. Can’t upvote your post coz its on 66 and this really does give “execute order 66” vibes
What a stupid fucking take given this whole election.
Republicans literally wrote a playbook on how they’re going to do it called Project 2025 ya dunce.
It’s clear Americans need to learn the hard way just like Europe did a long time ago.
Germany is heading that way again. Maybe we all haven’t learned the real lesson yet.
Maybe we all haven’t learned the real lesson yet.
Capitalism always trends towards end stage no matter how much you reform it?
There is no lesson to learn. Humanity itself is fascist. We are the problem
Yes democracy will be broken since Orangeman promised that this will be the last election you will ever need to vote in. Congrats.
The majority voted for the candidate I don’t like. That means democracy is broken.
Don’t worry, the US democracy was already broken. That became painfully clear when Trump started whining about not winning the popular vote when he was elected the first time. Being able to lose while having the support of the majority of voters is proof enough:
Hillary: 65,853,625 votes
Trump: 62,985,106 votes
Not every vote has the same weight, which is just completely bonkers and proof that your archaic system is due for a retrofit. Let’s just hope it won’t get chucked away entirely in the coming years.
FYI, Trump DID also win the popular vote this year. Perhaps it’s time to retire this argument.
Why? Trump won fair (proverbial at least, I don’t think all the misinformation that has been spewed on X counts as ‘fair’) and square this year, but that doesn’t mean your system isn’t flawed. Votes from certain states still carry less weight due to improperly distributed electors. Same happened with Gore vs Bush by the way.
What part of “he won the popular vote” did you not understand? Across all states, more people voted for him than for Harris. Even if there was no electoral college, he would still be president.
Unless you’re arguing that electoral college votes should be redistributed in a way that ensures the winner will always be a Democrat…
Across all states, more people voted for him than for Harris.
I never said otherwise.
Unless you’re arguing that electoral college votes should be redistributed in a way that ensures the winner will always be a Democrat…
No, I’m saying that your system needs to be fixed so every vote has the same weight, that’s all. The fact that the term ‘popular vote’ exists at all is the flaw. Who won this year is irrelevant to the argument.
I think us non-USians are alluding to the clusterfuck of only having an either/or choice. That’s not how democracy works in most democratic places. There’s only ever two runners and riders that stand any real chance of winning over there. Most people would call that a fixed race.
While there technically might be more choices available in other places (for instance, in Germany there’s usually at least 2-3 smaller parties that have a legitimate chance to make it into the Bundestag), de facto it still boils down to the two major parties (conservatives and social democrats) duking it out amongst themselves, and voting 3rd party is merely a matter of choosing who their junior partner will be. It might help sway the resulting coalition’s direction on some minor issues but the overall direction is still very much decided by the 500 lbs gorilla.
Someone downvoted you for spitting facts? Interesting. The two US parties are both right of centre, which gives an immediate imbalance. Small parties can have some bearing on their senior partners policies, like you say. I’m assuming Germany has local elections, mayoral elections etc. surely some of the smaller, more niche parties, pick up seats in those if they happen. Trends identified by smaller parties will get picked up by bigger parties, so they serve their worth there, too.
Results of the last German Federal election:
It’s really not 2 major parties and their junior partners anymore.
Nice. I was hoping it might look a bit like this. Thanks for researching / posting.
Unfortunately, the day after Trump was elected, coalition talks between the non-nazi parties in Saxony, a German state, failed. Which means there is no likely way to build a government coalition without a re-election or admittting the far right party in that state now.
And the day after that, the center-left federal government coalition broke apart, leaving it without a majority, which will trigger an early federal election next year.
And with current sentiments, the result of that election will likely pose the exact same problem Saxony now has, but for all of Germany.
This is either bad faith or supreme levels of stupidity.
Probably supreme levels of stupidity, caused by bad faith. Most people don’t get this dumb without a little elbow grease.
I mean… you’re kind of right, but this is a “read the room” situation.
And yet not everyone votes or even has a chance to vote in this democracy. And don’t get me started on the college of representarives. Seems pretty broken to me.
Congrats for getting the most downvotes on Lemmy I’ve ever seen. Which you absolutely deserve by the way, in my opinion.
KȮNTEKST Z F Ð WIK!!!
spoiler
CONTEXT IS FOR THE WEAK!!!
US is system is so bad. The constant pandering to “founding fathers” as if it’s even possible to have strong enough vision that it would last 200+ years and refusal to innovate past the ridiculous two party system is just sad tbh.
Yet nothing will change because you can’t change these things without a revolution apparently.
Not to mention that the founding fathers would hate what has become of American politics…
YOU FREED THE WHAT?!
Some states have already replaced First Past the Post voting actually
Kind of feels like our “crossing the Rubicon” moment. Except instead of an intellgent and accomplished general leading an army, we got a clown leading a circus.
It’s a democracy controlled by people who don’t care about regular working people. It was designed by rich white dudes and slaveowners 250 years ago to protect and increase their wealth.
Your institutions have failed you. Americans need to demand better and throw off the chains that the wealthy have put on them.
You mean an oligarchy then
That’s an accurate term too
Oiligarchy more precisely.
They willingly put the chains on every morning before heading to work.
Mortgage to pay, health care insurance costs, kids tuition, …
Slaves to the systems of life.
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What??? We literally saw democracy play out. You can’t even use the excuse that he lost the popular vote, he won every type of democratic way we have.
You know what wasn’t democracy? Installing candidates into primaries over democratically popular candidates. Hillary in 2016, Biden in 2020 and Kamala in 2024. In every single one of these primaries, they did everything they could to shut down anyone popular who showed any sign of having a backbone, even though they killed democracy as it happened.
What we saw was a backlash to a stifling of democracy. Democracy won last night.
Trump has threatened to end democracy in the US. So yesterday may end up being the last time anyone in the US gets to vote.
I wouldn’t call that a win for democracy.
There is zero proof that he’ll be a dictator. My source is that he was president for 4 years and was not a dictator.
The only thing you’re basing your claim on is an offhand joke he made about fully shutting down the borders on the first day, then opening them back up with better safeguards. If you watch the whole clip, you’ll understand that.
No. You’re clearly highly uneducated on American politics or just trolling.
Great comeback.
If you’re referencing Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020, he wasn’t “democratically popular” in either race. That simply is not supported by polling or election results. He was well behind Clinton by all metrics. Then in 2020, he was briefly “winning” because several similar candidates were splitting the center-left lane. The moment the center-left lane narrowed, Sanders’ lead evaporated.
It’s SOP for candidates to more or less clear the field for an incumbent president. This is partially because of a perceived effect from a strong primary challenger weakening an incumbent. So Democrats were just doing what both parties have been doing for the last half century.
The change from Biden was in response to clear reactions from the US electorate. The electorate saw Biden’s debate performance and was not impressed. There wasn’t time to run a process, so Kamala was the obvious choice given a non-ideal situation. But the electorate got what it wanted in terms of an option that wasn’t elderly.
Bernie Sanders won 3 out of 5 primaries that occurred before the DNC called it for Biden in 2020 with Buttigeg picking up 1 other. In 2016 Sanders won 23 races and was at 43% of the popular vote despite extreme pushback by the DNC. He was democratically supported cause he had people voting for him. Democratically.
And sure but with some of the worst polling numbers Biden, did not need to or should have thought he had incumbent advantage. Mud had a better approval rating.
And the change was from that and a protest vote of 100,000 voters voting against Biden in a primary that had no other option that’s was being ignored until the rich donors realized the polling wasnt gonna get better after the debate proved he was not fit for office.
There was time but the argument was made that it would be difficult and all the donations already made could be immediately given to Harris as she was already on the ticket, thus letting the money flow (which the DNC outspent Trump 2:1)
They got what they wanted which was a younger centrist willing to do Biden-esque policy without question that they thought would be easy with identity politics and being “not Trump” which is viewed as the main issue and not what issues he represents as a fix for.
Mostly being a willingness to change from status quo.Which is exactly what hasn’t been allowed in races as shown before.
Bernie Sanders won 3 out of 5 primaries that occurred before the DNC called it for Biden in 2020 with Buttigeg picking up 1 other.
I’m not sure how to parse what you’re saying. As far as DNC rules are concerned, they “call” it once all primary races are held.
In 2016 Sanders won 23 races and was at 43% of the popular vote despite extreme pushback by the DNC. He was democratically supported cause he had people voting for him. Democratically.
The Democratic primary uses proportional representation, so candidates don’t win states, they win delegates. Hillary Clinton got 55% of the popular vote, Bernie Sanders got 43%. There are no two ways to slice it, Bernie lost that election by the rules of a democratic election by a sizeable margin. Meanwhile, Hillary was dealing with getting hacked and Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi. And you’re forgetting the often adoring coverage that was played to audiences on the left about Sanders.
The selling point for Kamala wasn’t anything in particular about her. She’s the VP and was the only obvious choice. There was no appetite for a contested convention, which was the alternative. It was always going to be an uphill battle, so in a sense she’s also a sacrificial lamb.
I’m not sure how to parse what you’re saying. As far as DNC rules are concerned, they “call” it once all primary races are held.
I believe it means that you weren’t paying attention during the 2020 primaries or the news around them then. The DNC Does not wait and did not. Claiming Biden the Presumptive nominee
38 days(that number is from 2024, media declared him presumptive nominee in a period about 4 days longer in 2020 still faster than trump in 24) after the first delegate picked. Obama took 120 days. To give you an idea of how fast that was, faster than Trump’s nomination in 2020. (43 days)You are correct though. The primary eventually went the way it went. He lost it by the rules but there is a reason people don’t feel good about the rules presented and that needs to be dealt with.
I would also just want to finish with the simple, how is pointing out how popular his rallies were be a negative to his electability while being an usurper to someone in social and legal discourse?
So based on your 38 days, that would be March 12th (2020-02-03 + 38 days), no? And Biden was indeed declared the winner on a March 12th, but that was in 2024. It took until April 8, 2020 for Bernie to decide to drop out.
I think you are right. I am mixing up the 12th with 2024 however it was not until Bernie dropped out that everyone started calling Biden the winner.
By March media was still calling Biden the nominee and you can find articles claiming Biden as the nominee by March 17th just with a quick Google search. Washington Post called it by March 15th in an article I can’t read from a paywall.
After Biden won South Carolina (a single state) it was already being called as his win and by March 3rd most other candidates dropped and fell in line with Biden creating chaos in super Tuesday polling as voters were told their votes had been pointless.
I agree with you that if you look Biden didn’t actually get the delegates needed to be the Nominee until June and that Bernie Sanders didn’t drop until the 8th of April and his campaign was struggling at that point.
But that divide between what actually happened and how it’s recorded is part of my point.
A large amount of effort was made to push people into a specific option and while it “worked” it does not mean it didn’t come with a cost of voter engagement.
He wasn’t “democratically popular” because the Dems suppressed all support he had. All those news medias that have been hounding on trump being the worst thing since Hitler? Yeah, they used that same power to stifle anyone who had an iota of a chance to get votes
I think you’re forgetting the part where Clinton paid off the DNC’s debts and became it’s only financial lifeline, for which DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz abdicated control of party to Clinton’s team long before she secured the nomination.. Or that the AP controversially called the primary for Hillary just before California voted, giving voters the impression the primary was over before voting finished. Or that the DNC argued in court that they had no obligation give Bernie a fair, democratic primary. Or that Representatives Ford and Smith admitted the party did coalesce around Biden in 2020 to block Bernie. Or that polls had Bernie beating Trump by a wider margin than Clinton in 2016 and Biden in 2020.
Did you forgot the part where it came down to just bernie vs biden in 2020 and people overwhelmingly voted for biden?
I like bernie too, but he wasn’t gonna get the pick
Edit: I have angered the bernie bros
Except it wasn’t just him and Bernie. It was also Warren, so the progressive vote was spit, while the centrist vote was coordinated around Biden. Nice try though!
Biden made more than bernie and warren combined in alot of states. If bernie was meant to be, more people would have voted for him, plain and simple.
You’re right, I forgot that Bloomberg was still in and running a campaign entirely designed to block Bernie. Nothing says, “Democracy,” like an oligarch entering an election and using his personal wealth to undermine another candidate, right?
Bloomberg was a joke. Can blame it on everything you like, bernie was still never getting presidency in 2020. People picked Biden over him.
All these sources of intentional corruption against someone running to improve the lives of all Americans and not just a select few, and you just go “Hmm, but he was losing according to the media that lied to us, so he lost fair and square.”
I see how many people didnt vote for him. How is the media lying about that?
You could argue that media was against him, but the truth is that people in america just aren’t that progressive. I mean hell, look at how terrible the dem turnout was this year compared to last election.
- Refuses to cover his campaign ads
- Refuses to cover his victories
- Intentionally leaving him off of nationwide polls when data allow him to be counted (CNN infamous called Sanders “Other Candidate” instead of showing him, but counted Andrew Yang)
- Slander about him being sexist when he encouraged women to run for office and only started going in 2016 when he asked Warren to run and she declined.
- Mass media campaign about calling the Jewish senator antisemitic for not being “pro killing children”
So when the media is against you, people see it as a bad candidate, and don’t vote. Even when he was never a monster, but Trump got more air time saying “Mexicans bring rape”.
Democrats aren’t progressives. Maybe if they were, they wouldn’t lose all the time.
“If they just had my opinions (that are unpopular to the US population at large), they would win.”
I am not sure you remember but the media reaction to Bernie doing well initially was major outlets like CNN reacting with fear, loathing, and uncertainty. And it impacted rhe course of an election. You had anchors yelling about how Sanders will result in public executions in central park during the primary.
Yup. Crazy hyped up fear is the single most used tool the media has to throw at whoever the Dems don’t like. Tulsi too, when she didn’t bow to DNC pressure, was suddenly a “Russian asset”. Hillary Clinton couldn’t get on air fast enough to smear her. It was sick.
*Candidate backed by the world’s richest billionaire wins*
.ml users: “Democracy Won!”
Do you think Dems aren’t backed by billionaires? Gates, Bezos, Soros, Oprah, the list continues. But what, the single billionaire throwing $$ at the trump campaign is the big evil baddie? Because he has a few more billions?
